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AMERICA - MILITARY BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

US Space Force

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines

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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:07 pm

Thanks guys -- feedback noted! smilies-15

As I understand it, the USAF use the First Sergeant role as a special duty appointment rather than a single rank. The appointee is effectively the senior enlisted advisor for that unit, with responsibilities for the welfare and conduct of all enlisted members in the unit. Depending on the size of the unit, the substantive grade of the First Sergeant may be E7 to E9. They wear grade chevrons specific to that appointment with traditional diamond-shaped "lozenge" of the First Sergeant at the center. I thought I would try to use two of the delta emblems back-to-back to create a new USSF version of the lozenge -- but, actually, I think the plain old-fashioned parallelogram shape works better and is more easily recognisable so I have changed it back!

Yes, I had thought about the SEAC role but it seemed a bit presumptive at the moment, given that there is effectively zero chance of a USSF SEAC for the forceable future! Nevertheless, for completeness, I have now included the insignia, using the established emblem of the eagle surrounded by four stars. smilies-29


USSF enlisted grades v2.png
US Space Force Enlisted rank v2



I did a trawl through the internet last night and, perhaps not surprisingly, there is a fair amount of chatter about what the uniforms and such will be. If you ignore all the humorous versions based on Star Trek / Star Wars / V / Starship Troopers / Spaceballs / Barbarella (yes, really...), and only look at the “serious” efforts, it seems that quite a few folks have come up with very similar uniform concepts around a grey and/or black version of the older-style Air Force uniform, so it will be interesting to see if we’ve all guessed correctly!
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby marcpasquin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:33 pm

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:Thanks guys -- feedback noted! smilies-15

The attachment USSF enlisted grades v2.png is no longer available



To me it would simplify the design if the delta formed part of the top chevron for the master sergeant onward instead of coming out of the bottom-most chevron.

0988745.png



Medic_in_Uniform wrote:I did a trawl through the internet last night and, perhaps not surprisingly, there is a fair amount of chatter about what the uniforms and such will be. If you ignore all the humorous versions based on Star Trek / Star Wars / V / Starship Troopers / Spaceballs / Barbarella (yes, really...), and only look at the “serious” efforts, it seems that quite a few folks have come up with very similar uniform concepts around a grey and/or black version of the older-style Air Force uniform, so it will be interesting to see if we’ve all guessed correctly!


Every time someone talk about the US Space Force, I get an uptick on the number of views of my deviantart page. Thankfully, the number of messages I get from acquaintances saying "hey ! you image is on {such-and-such news outlet page} as an official proposal !" has dropped in the past year.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:13 pm

Hi Marc — yes, that’s a fair observation!

I started out trying to use the Delta as the basis for ALL the enlisted insignia with progressive additional chevrons like “wings” as the system progressed. It sort of worked but I ended up going down a slightly different path and switched to making the Delta the key symbol of the Master Sergeants, and I think it achieved the goal of making those grades immediately recognisable. I did try the delta above the chevrons but it ended up making the insignia for the senior grades ridiculously tall! To be fair, the current USAF insignia for the E7 and above Master Sergeant grades aren’t exactly minuscule anyway!

I take your point about the simplicity of the overall look with the Delta above the chevrons and that’s definitely a positive attribute with rank insignia. One of the things that I have noticed with many of the ideas I’ve seen online is just how *complex* the designs for the enlisted insignia become, especially for the senior grades. I’ll have another look at it!

Your original designs for Space Force enlisted insignia were very good and they have been around for a while now so I’m not surprised that they keep getting appropriated! I guess it’s also about the fact that once you’re listed on the search engines, you will keep getting more hits and so it spirals! I keep spotting them in many places.

I guess it’s been over ten years since I first started putting my various drawings online and one of the most amusing things is that I’m now seeing my own drawings of badges and rank insignia appropriated by the very organisations they depict, both for websites and for their official documents. That made me laugh!
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:25 pm

The top row in this drawing is one of the ways I started putting together the delta-and-chevrons enlisted insignia. It's a bit "busy" (!) and not very easy to read at a glance.

The bottom row is something I did just now after taking heed of my own comments about simpler being better! I took a very reductionist approach and removed every component symbol that was unnecessarily repeated from one insignia to the next. I then looked at how to make the sequence follow a logical order, so that there was an obvious stepwise progression from each grade to the next. I elected to keep the large Delta symbol as the key marker of the Master Sergeant grades, E7 through E9. I've also gently tapered the chevrons to follow the angle of the sides of the delta; this helps to reduce the overall space taken up by each insignia and creates a more balanced shape which is easier to see.

I think I like this one; it's much, much simpler and easier to follow. In fact, from E1 Basic through the standard E9 Chief Master Sergeant, the whole pattern can be followed using just the chevron and delta components, no additional symbols are required.

I've left the delta-and-globe symbol in the center of the E7 and above Master Sergeants' insignia in this drawing as it does add a nice level of detail; I guess it could be included for full-size service dress chevron on coat sleeves but for all other versions, including soft shoulder slides and pin-on metal insignia, this could be omitted. Really, the only additional marks required would be those needed for the special duty E9 grades.


USSF enlisted grades v3.png
US Space Force Enlisted insignia: initial concept versus refined and simplified design.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:24 pm

The updated Enlisted grade insignia with the enlisted service dress uniforms:

Formal service dress A -- E9 special duty: Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force
(with special cap and collar badges)

Working service dress B -- E6: Senior Sergeant
(with garrison cap)


USSF enlisted v4.png
US Space Force Enlisted insignia with service dress A and B
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:27 am

I like the revisions.

And also, the suppositions about the status of USAF First Sergeants are correct.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Torg003 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:03 pm

Have to agree, the revised ranks look good, much cleaner and easier to make out.
It will be interesting to see what the actual insignia will look like. Maybe they might take some ideas from your posts, who knows?
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:25 am

One problem that I can see though, is that from a distance, the shoulder marks would look like USAF Academy cadet ranks.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Onslow123 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:07 pm

I have the suspicion, that rank structure is going to be more eclectic. The transfer of army units apparently also means the transfer of Army ranks and there are two cases:

1)Specialists E4 are probably going to get their own insignia.

2) Warrant Officers are going to be introduced. The only other real alternative would be late entry commissioning of WO-s to corresponding officer ranks O-1 to O-5 or O-6, probably as limited duty officers.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:50 pm

Torg003 wrote:Have to agree, the revised ranks look good, much cleaner and easier to make out.
It will be interesting to see what the actual insignia will look like. Maybe they might take some ideas from your posts, who knows?


Thanks!
Unlikely my ideas will ever even be considered for, or even influence, the real thing...!

My drawings don't even appear if you Google "US Space Force uniforms" so I doubt the powers that be have even seen them!

smilies-23



Onslow123 wrote:I have the suspicion, that rank structure is going to be more eclectic. The transfer of army units apparently also means the transfer of Army ranks and there are two cases:

1)Specialists E4 are probably going to get their own insignia.

2) Warrant Officers are going to be introduced. The only other real alternative would be late entry commissioning of WO-s to corresponding officer ranks O-1 to O-5 or O-6, probably as limited duty officers.



It'll be interesting to see what happens; just because they're potentially going to be transferring in some Army members, it doesn't necessarily follow that they will adopt Army structure and grade titles once those individuals are assimilated (no Borg jokes please...) into the new service. It might make sense to align and standardise rank titles with grades where the same title is being used by other services -- although that doesn't exist at the moment anyway given that a USAF "Staff Sergeant" is E5 but in the US Army and the USMC the E5 grade is "Sergeant" and the title "Staff Sergeant' is the grade above at E6, which the USAF title "Technical Sergeant". I know it's a historical quirk but I have to admit that I've never quite understood why this came about. It's not that I don't understand what the arguments were, it just make no sense to me not to have the grades and titles standardised across all the services that use them. It's established though, so I can understand why there would be resistance to changing it.

It's entirely possible, of course, that the USSF may opt to do something new and completely different, given that it sounds like even their more junior enlisted grades will need to be fairly technically trained / qualified and they may choose to adapt where the NCO leadership grades begin within the pay grades. We'll just have to wait and see.

Warrant Officers, on the other hand, are not particularly hard to include. Sure, there's a degree of inter-service variation but the general pattern for the W1 through CW5 across all the services is still based on a lieutenant's rank bar with various squares and lines added to denote grade. It wouldn't change anything that's already here, it would just add an extra set of five bars on the chart alongside the officer ranks, and possibly a slightly different cap badge if they decided not to use the plain officer-style US coat of arms.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:41 am

The transfer of personnel from services other than the Air Force is at least a year off into the future, so the rank structure will be set before then

There could well be warrant officers, however, especially in cyber occupations.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Lord Cybran » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:39 pm

Hey Medic - glad you've resumed drawing your awesome insignia patterns! We've been missing them! smilies-23
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Lord Cybran » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:58 pm

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:Thanks guys -- feedback noted! smilies-15

As I understand it, the USAF use the First Sergeant role as a special duty appointment rather than a single rank. The appointee is effectively the senior enlisted advisor for that unit, with responsibilities for the welfare and conduct of all enlisted members in the unit. Depending on the size of the unit, the substantive grade of the First Sergeant may be E7 to E9. They wear grade chevrons specific to that appointment with traditional diamond-shaped "lozenge" of the First Sergeant at the center. I thought I would try to use two of the delta emblems back-to-back to create a new USSF version of the lozenge -- but, actually, I think the plain old-fashioned parallelogram shape works better and is more easily recognisable so I have changed it back!

Yes, I had thought about the SEAC role but it seemed a bit presumptive at the moment, given that there is effectively zero chance of a USSF SEAC for the forceable future! Nevertheless, for completeness, I have now included the insignia, using the established emblem of the eagle surrounded by four stars. smilies-29


USSF enlisted grades v2.png



I did a trawl through the internet last night and, perhaps not surprisingly, there is a fair amount of chatter about what the uniforms and such will be. If you ignore all the humorous versions based on Star Trek / Star Wars / V / Starship Troopers / Spaceballs / Barbarella (yes, really...), and only look at the “serious” efforts, it seems that quite a few folks have come up with very similar uniform concepts around a grey and/or black version of the older-style Air Force uniform, so it will be interesting to see if we’ve all guessed correctly!


Personally, if I were to choose among the patterns for enlisted members you posted here, I'd choose that one. smilies-33
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Torg003 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:14 am

I've been thinking about the uniforms, everyone seems to think that they will be either black or dark grey because they would be the obvious choices. I'm wondering if they might surprise everyone in choosing a USAF style uniform in a dark blue colour. If it happens, you heard it hear first. smilies-29
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:37 am

Yep, I definitely think that’s in the mix of possibilities.

For what it’s worth, there’s a dark navy blue variant in my first drawing and I mentioned it in the discussion. It’s worth remembering that they chose navy blue as the embroidery color on the field uniform that they published a little while back.

Dark navy blue looks a lot like all the other services so, depending on your point of view, that’s either a very good reason for using it or a very good reason for NOT using it...!

My best guess is that we’ll see a black or dark grey version of the current USAF uniform, or possibly a straightforward revival of the old-style USAF black officer uniform variants. People tend to like and choose things that they can see and recognise. A lot of this will depend on how much Gen. Raymond, and others, want to adhere to the heritage they are familiar with, versus how willing they are to strike out and establish something new and different. In the end, it’ll be some sort of balance between those two positions.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Helios88 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:58 am

Personally, I think uniforms will be USAF-inspired, while insignias will be brand new.
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