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AMERICA - MILITARY BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

New US senior enlisted rank coming

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines

Moderators: Miklós Lovász, kaldi, Chuck Anderson, Pavel Močoch, Erskine Calderon, Lukasz Gaszewski, ChrisWI, Zdzislaw Rudzki

New US senior enlisted rank coming

Unread postby dcfowler1 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:20 am

This week's edition of Army Times reports that they are looking at creating a new senior enlisted advisor position for the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff.

Presumably this individual would be senior to the five senior enlisted advisors in each of the armed forces, and the officeholder would rotate from among the four DOD services.

I speculate that the rank title would be Sergeant Major of the JCS (USA/USMC), Master Chief petty Officer of the JCS (USN) and Chief Master Sergeant of the JCS, depending on which service the person comes from, and would require new insignia.

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Unread postby Erskine Calderon » Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:03 am

It could be simplified as Joint Chief Petty Officer and Joint Chief Sergeant Major.
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US senior enlisted

Unread postby Herrwiggly » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:31 am

Hi Dave, please keep us posted on any developement, if and when the new proposed rank comes into being, will be most interested in the new insignia. Do you think it's possiblle that some of the existing insignia will have to be modified? Cheers. :D :D :D
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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:44 pm

Erskine Calderon wrote:It could be simplified as Joint Chief Petty Officer and Joint Chief Sergeant Major.


Well, first, it's Joint Chiefs, not Joint Chief, and second the way you suggest would not be consistent with past practice for the service enlisted advisors.

I'll keep the forum updated, as I know more.

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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:38 am

The first NCO was appointed to this position last Thursday, by the incoming chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, USMC General Peter Pace.

The new uber-top enlisted advisor will be Command Sergeant Major William J. Gainey of the US Army. His position title will be "Command Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff", and he takes office on Oct 1, 2005.

I contacted CSM Gainey this morning at his office at Fort Hood, and he told me that he intends to create a new Army rank title for himself, and for subsequent Army CSEACJCSs, and will create a new CJCS command sergeant major rank chevron as well. He stated that nothing has been nailed down on these two points yet, and neither issue may be resolved yet when he takes office in October, and may only come later, as he gets some time in the job, which necessarily, will evolve as it becomes a more concrete entity. The Institute of Heraldry will have a major say in the latter issue.

As a reminder, this will be a rotational position, with Gainey's successors to come from the Marine Corps, Navy and Air Force, each of which will have its own rank title and insignia, as their member takes office for the first time.

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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:25 am

I corresponded with CSM Gainey today, and he told me that he hopes to have a new rank title and rank insignia (as well as positional flag) in place by January 2006.

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Nnew US Senior Enlisted

Unread postby Herrwiggly » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:56 am

Hi Dave, reading your post again regarding the forthcoming appointment to the JCS, it brought another question to mind.
When an E9 soldier is appointed as Sergeant Major of the Army or equivalent position for the Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps or Coast Guard, how long does he serve in this capacity and what happens when the soldier steps down and a replacement found, does the soldier retire from the army etc. or does he return to his former unit? If he returns to his former unit, does he retain the unique insignia of his once unique appointment?
Cheers.
:?: :?: :?: :?:
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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:43 am

I'm not completely certain, but I believe they serve two-year terms, which are renewable once.

In virtually every instance, this is a capstone assignment for a very senior NCO, and they retire afterwards. I believe one MCPON returned to service after his tour, but again, I am not positive there weren't more from the five services.

The rank insignia for the senior enlisted member is only good for the duration of their appointment, and into retirement. If they return to a lower appointment, they would wear the badge of that appointment (command sergeant major, command chief master sergeant, etc.)

Navy and Coast Guard uniform regs do specify that in this situation, the wearer is entitled to a gold (rather than silver) rating badge.

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Unread postby Blakwhit » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:39 pm

If one of the senior enlisted advisors does decide to stay in they will usally move on to an assignment in a joint command for example US CENTCOM Senior enlisted advisor.

The gold cheverons the navy gives out are for I think it is 20 years good conduct, otherwise the person is required to wear red cheverons. Although I'm sure there has never been a case where the MCPON would not have 20 years good Conduct so I doubt it's a problem.

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Unread postby J.T. Broderick » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:36 pm

I corresponded with CSM Gainey today, and he told me that he hopes to have a new rank title and rank insignia (as well as positional flag) in place by January 2006.


Thanks for keeping us informed on this, Dave.

best regards,
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Unread postby J.T. Broderick » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:38 pm

The gold cheverons the navy gives out are for I think it is 20 years good conduct, otherwise the person is required to wear red cheverons. Although I'm sure there has never been a case where the MCPON would not have 20 years good Conduct so I doubt it's a problem.



Gold chevrons are for 12 years consecutive good conduct. What Dave was referring to was the specialty mark. MCPON wears three gold stars above the crow and a gold star for the specialty mark. Post-tour, they continue to wear the three gold stars above but use the gold specialty mark of their rating instead of the gold star. Fleet/Force Master Chiefs do the same thing, but with two gold stars above. The regulations are kind of vague, but I believe post-tour MCPONs can continue to wear the three stars on the cap and collar devices.

The only MCPON I am aware of that didn't retire on relief was John D. Whittet in the early 1970s. He was originally an aviation machinist's mate, but qualified for master-at-arms during his MCPON tour and wore the MA specialty mark for the year or so he stayed on active duty before retiring.

best regards,
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Unread postby Blakwhit » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:40 pm

Sorry my fault, I was slightly confused. But I look forward to seeing the new cheverons.

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new senir enlisted

Unread postby Herrwiggly » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:04 am

Hi Dave, many thanks for your reply to my earlier post
Cheers. :D :D :D
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Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:43 am

Just wondering, how about naming this uber-top NCO something like Sergeant-General? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Unread postby ChrisWI » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:36 pm

Miklós Lovász wrote:Just wondering, how about naming this uber-top NCO something like Sergeant-General? :lol: :lol: :lol:

lol, im interested in what the insignia will look like 8)
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Unread postby milos » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:48 pm

:lol: @ Sergeant-General... not a bad idea though

Now, what I'd really like to hear is, if any of you were by some chance involved in the new insignia designing process, what would your proposed insignia look like?

Let your imagination soar, and sound off...

A fourth chevron, a fourth arc (similar to the USMC senior NCOs), a combination of the two, different colour chevrons (based on the gold-silver precedence for 2nd Lt.-1st Lt. and Major-Lt. Colonel, chevrons could be silver), a teddy-bear between the chevrons and the arcs (just kiddin'), the possibilities are endless...
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Unread postby ghbisa » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:40 am

After a little experimentation the best design I could come up with was to replace the national eagle on the chevron for the Sergeant Major of the Army with the Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification badge.
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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:53 pm

ghbisa wrote:After a little experimentation the best design I could come up with was to replace the national eagle on the chevron for the Sergeant Major of the Army with the Joint Chiefs of Staff Identification badge.


I think something of this nature is highly likely to be the insignia.

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Unread postby Peter » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:38 pm

milos wrote::lol: @ Sergeant-General... not a bad idea though

Now, what I'd really like to hear is, if any of you were by some chance involved in the new insignia designing process, what would your proposed insignia look like?

Let your imagination soar, and sound off...

A fourth chevron, a fourth arc (similar to the USMC senior NCOs), a combination of the two, different colour chevrons (based on the gold-silver precedence for 2nd Lt.-1st Lt. and Major-Lt. Colonel, chevrons could be silver), a teddy-bear between the chevrons and the arcs (just kiddin'), the possibilities are endless...


The orginal ranktitle for Major General was Sergeant Major General (Wikipedia, Major General), maybe this would be a good one?
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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:01 pm

On an episode of M*A*S*H, they once had Radar O'Reilly pose as a "Corporal Captain".

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Unread postby Peter » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:26 pm

Dave,

I would suggest for a Sergeant Major General 2 silver stars and 1 gold above. And maybe we could call a Sergeant Major of the Army a Sergeant Major Colonel with a gold eagle. So every lieutenant-colonel or below knows that these kind of Sergeant Majors you do not kick there asses.
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Unread postby kaldi » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:43 pm

I personally dont think it´s gonna work couse of the history of gold and silver amongst rankinsignia of the US armed forces.
for me two silver stars and one golden abowe is lower than three star general but higher than two star general
but the name might be ok


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Unread postby Lukasz Gaszewski » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:43 am

My proposals are these. Simple and neat:

Image Image
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Unread postby milos » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:41 pm

Hm, I don't know...

Mr. Gaszewski's proposal is indeed an interesting one, and it could work, but I'd really like those chevrons to be silver...
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Unread postby Peter » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:51 am

Dear Milos,

Gold chevrons in the Navy are given for 12 year good conduct, and if you make somebody the highest ranking NCO in the entire Armed Forces I think he has a lot more than 12 years of good conduct. If you give the army Sergeant Major silver chevrons and rockers it would ruin a tradition. But for me it would be better for the Navy one 4 stars and the Army one 3 stars. A little bit off topic. Don't forget that in the future you will have a Sergeant Major to the Vice President and one for the President too as they go on like this. Te be a bit critical, if they go on like this who will ever gonna shoot rifles and battle if there are more sergeants who directing fire than people who gonna actually fight. I saw a nice article about it at: www.geocities.com/commentariat/usenlist ... htm?200514.
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Unread postby milos » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:08 am

Well, one can but hope. I just said I'd like to see those chevrons being silver, I didn't say I think they really will be once the insignia is authorised for wear.
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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:01 am

Peter wrote:Don't forget that in the future you will have a Sergeant Major to the Vice President and one for the President too as they go on like this. Te be a bit critical, if they go on like this who will ever gonna shoot rifles and battle if there are more sergeants who directing fire than people who gonna actually fight. I saw a nice article about it at: www.geocities.com/commentariat/usenlist ... htm?200514.


This comment misses the point of creating this new position/rank. It had been recognized for some time that the soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen/ coastguadsmen serving in joint commands (which used to be negligable in size and numbers in the US, but which are now the nexus around which all forces are organized) lacked a single command senior enlisted advisor with the heft and clout of the five service senior enlisted advisors.

This was not an example of rank inflation, or an effort to give a senior enlisted advisor to an ever-increasing level of rank and/or political position, but rather, a logical way in which to give those serving in joint commands (CENTCOM, STRATCOM, EUCOM, etc.) a pipeline to their senior uniformed leadership.

The creation of the rank has been met with universal approval by generals and enlisted personnel alike.

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Unread postby dcfowler1 » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:15 pm

Still no information about new chevrons, but a unique collar insignia has been approved. Only the Sergeant Major of the Army also has unique collar insignia.

On a gold disc:

A shield, bordered gold, with three points at the top, and one below.
Shield is divided light blue over white, from upper left to lower right.
Two white stars above in the blue portion.
Two blue stars below in the white portion.
The DOD eagle, with a US shield, clutching arrows in its talons is in the center, in natural colors.

The initial rank title proposed by CSM Gainey (which I do not know), was disapproved by the Army, and will be re-submitted at a later date.

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Re: New US senior enlisted rank coming

Unread postby dcfowler » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:54 pm

It's been fourteen years, but the Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff finally got its own rank insignia.

Sergeant Major Troxell of the Army is seen here wearing it for the first time, though he's about to hand the reigns over to an Air Force chief master sergeant.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/12/10/theres-a-new-rank-insignia-for-the-militarys-top-enlisted-adviser/
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