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AMERICA - MILITARY BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

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Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:55 pm

I see that someone (Tony Baldwin) has updated rank insignia pages for the Canadian Armed Forces, especially those of the air force. The latest page added for the RCAF (2013 since) is very well done and accurate, though my one criticism would be that the colour is a bit off, needs a bit more blue (should look like the blue in the 1988-2012 insignia). Also I noticed a glaring mistake on the air force 1953-1968 page, it should say Royal Canadian Air Force, NOT Air Command (AIRCOM)as that was only used after unification, and technically not until 1975.
I would hope that Tony (or someone) might clean up the Royal Canadian Navy (2010 since) page and correct the mistakes there which have already been mentioned in other threads. But basically the maple leaf is wrong, obsolete versions of the CPO I rank (the ones with the swords and the one with the anchor) should be removed and the titles corrected, the Lt Commander and Commander ranks need to be fixed, and lastly, the C in C rank needs to be in gold (not white), just like the one shown on the RCAF paged. It would be nice to see a current RCN page with sleeve insignia as well (wink, wink).
Appreciate the work that goes into this site, thanks.

Cheers.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:09 am

That's the intent and has already been submitted
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Pavel Močoch » Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:46 pm

Greetings.
Soon everything will be updated. Tony Baldwin is working on updates.
Thank you for your support.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:04 pm

I see the new (old) officer rank insignia has been added for the army, just wondering why the Officer Cadet rank is missing? It is included with the CADPAT field uniform rank, but not the regular DEU rank insignia.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:16 am

Awaiting information to come in on said insignia
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:22 am

If you take a look at the official CAF website and check their table of rank insignia for the army, you will see the OC rank has one pip on top of a white stripe. (Don't know how much more official you can get than the Canadian Armed Forces own webpage).
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:30 pm

Torgo thanks for letting me know given the fact the page was only updated in the last week and I have been out field and not near a computer or in my office to view emails
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri May 02, 2014 5:57 am

Some images of the new rank insignia: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/honours-hist ... -army.page?
Image
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Sun May 04, 2014 7:41 pm

OC rank added to the Canadian Army page, looks good. Please redo the RCN page and correct all the mistakes (I would like to see a RCN sleeve insignia as well as the RCN shoulder insignia page, but even if the current one is just redone and looks like the current RCAF and CA pages, I'd be satisfied). Only one other thing needs to be changed to make the Canada insignia pages correct. Please change the (sub)title of the Canadian Air Force 1953=1968 page, (as I stated earlier in this thread) it was the RCAF until unification (1368) NOT Canadian Forces Air Command (AIRCOM), that is completely false and needs to be changed. It's just a wording edit and not a graphics change so I would think it should be an easy thing to do.
Thanks for your time and effort and hope you make the last changes needed to the Canadian insignia pages in the near future.
Cheers.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri May 09, 2014 4:48 am

Target date for cutover to new insignia has been set for 4 August 2014.

Regiments that wish to have non-standard patterns of rank insignia can submit proposals until June.

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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Fri May 09, 2014 11:34 am

dcfowler wrote:Target date for cutover to new insignia has been set for 4 August 2014.

Regiments that wish to have non-standard patterns of rank insignia can submit proposals until June.

Dave


by that do you mean that units could do like some guard regiments in the UK that wear pips of different orders then the Order of the Bath ?
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Fri May 09, 2014 4:23 pm

& The Armoured Regiments to ware Chrome Insgnia and some of the others to ware Black Pips and Crowns
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Fri May 09, 2014 5:32 pm

Marc,

in the diagram above, note (7) covers variations in rank markings (silver vs. gilt vs. black) and also refers to Guards regiments using the traditional Garter star in place of the Bath star.

Hope that helps!
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Fri May 09, 2014 6:19 pm

trbaldwin wrote:& The Armoured Regiments to ware Chrome Insgnia and some of the others to ware Black Pips and Crowns


Medic_in_Uniform wrote:Marc,

in the diagram above, note (7) covers variations in rank markings (silver vs. gilt vs. black) and also refers to Guards regiments using the traditional Garter star in place of the Bath star.

Hope that helps!



I guess what I was really wondering was if the "proposal for non-standard insignias" mentioned by dcfowler meant that regiments could request to wear insignias not covered by tradition or current practices as those you two mentioned.

Just for the sake of an example, could the Governor General's Horse Guards request to use the star of the Order of Canada ?
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby jrichardn2 » Sat May 10, 2014 1:37 pm

I note the gorget for general officers uses laurel leaves, rather than maple leaves. I know some generals wore maple leaves in the pre-1968 days.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Sun May 11, 2014 7:44 am

jrichardn2 wrote:I note the gorget for general officers uses laurel leaves, rather than maple leaves. I know some generals wore maple leaves in the pre-1968 days.


I've only ever seen a single example (on the canadian MP virtual museum website) that dated back to WW1 and have never seen an example or reference to one in official publications so I think it might have been either a prototype or a non-official embellishment custom made for a canadian general in europe.

This is what it looked like for those interested:

Image
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby jrichardn2 » Sun May 11, 2014 4:08 pm

Ditto, Marc, except that in one of Jack Granatstein's books (either The Generals or, less likely, Who Killed the Canadian Military?) he laments their disappearance, which made me think that they may have been standard. However, a fairly quick search on Google shows lots of pix of pre-1968 Canadian generals, not one with maple-leaf gorgets.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:22 pm

Something of note, The Canadian Guards regiment which existed between 1953-1970 had it's own special "household pip" which it used in a manner similar to british Foot Guards Regiments:

Image

I bring this up because I'm wondering if any other regiments were ever awarded special insignias of this type that might be readopted.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:54 pm

That's rather nice -- and specifically Canadian. It's a real shame they haven't chosen to use that pattern (or something like it) instead of the Bath star as the standard 'pip' for the new rank markings.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:06 am

From the SITREPs the CA were Realeasing

Regiments of Guards (Horse and Foot) may wear a star based on The Order of the Garter.

Regimental or Corps variances to the star and crown patterns (as above) will be supported IAW pre-1968 traditions at non-public expense.

This means it ill be Regimental Funds or Memebers to Self Purchanse the variations
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:20 am

Regiments and corps had until around June 30 to submit proposals for variations in rank insignia and other unique regimental devices. He is correct that unit funds will have to pay for any non-standard insignia.

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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:02 am

dcfowler wrote:Regiments and corps had until around June 30 to submit proposals for variations in rank insignia and other unique regimental devices. He is correct that unit funds will have to pay for any non-standard insignia.

Dave


would be funny to see a unit or branch trying to convince the higher echelons to *keep* the current insignias as they were created during the unification period (like the Logistics Branch) and so these are their "traditional" insignias.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:12 am

The regimental store of the R22eR is offering embroided version of the new/retro insignias:

pip:
Image

crown
Image

sword & scabbard
Image
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am

Sword and scabbard...?! Sabre and Baton, Marc! smilies-29 smilies-15

Those are a slightly odd design -- I'd expect the sabre to have either a gold hilt with a silver blade or for the device to be all-gold or all silver, depending upon the expected background colour (and to match whatever is used for the Crown / Bath star). For example, on UK full dress / No1 dress gold shoulder cords, the devices are silver for contrast.

Given that these Canadian versions seem to be essentially heraldically "proper" coloured crown (gold circlet with coloured jewels and gold arches / red cap with white (silver) and black details for ermine trim /etc.) and "proper" colours for the Bath star, then matching "proper" gold baton (+/- silver details) and gold hilt / silver blade for the sabre would seem reasonable.

I guess these are intended for mess dress or (other ceremonial uniforms...?). I can't imagine them being authorised for green service dress in place of the metal insignia.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby marcpasquin » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:33 am

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:Sword and scabbard...?! Sabre and Baton, Marc!


well bugger me, you're right. I had always assumed it was meant to be a scabbard for reasons that are probably obvious.

Those are a slightly odd design -- I'd expect the sabre to have either a gold hilt with a silver blade or for the device to be all-gold or all silver, depending upon the expected background colour (and to match whatever is used for the Crown / Bath star). For example, on UK full dress / No1 dress gold shoulder cords, the devices are silver for contrast.

Given that these Canadian versions seem to be essentially heraldically "proper" coloured crown (gold circlet with coloured jewels and gold arches / red cap with white (silver) and black details for ermine trim /etc.) and "proper" colours for the Bath star, then matching "proper" gold baton (+/- silver details) and gold hilt / silver blade for the sabre would seem reasonable.

I guess these are intended for mess dress or (other ceremonial uniforms...?). I can't imagine them being authorised for green service dress in place of the metal insignia.


the mess jacket of the r22er has blue shoulder straps so that would seems reasonable. The only example of it currently on their website still shows unification era stripes unfortunatly.

Image
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:40 am

Not surprisingly, that looks like the standard pattern of many British mess kits and the embroidered bullion insignia would work just fine.

Think about your comment on the unification-era stripes, maybe more recently formed units like Logistics can keep them as "traditional" insignia for mess uniforms, just as some units previously kept pre-unification insignia...!

smilies-15
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:17 am

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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Blakwhit » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:44 pm

There are some more photos on the Flickr Page

https://www.flickr.com/photos/canadiana ... otostream/
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:43 am

Oh, horror ... smilies-31

That powder-blue ... that fabric ... those horrid grins ... can they drop any lower than that?
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:21 am

It was reported on a Canadian Forces forum that Army/RCAF warrant officers and RCN petty officers, 1st class will all get larger crowns on their slip-ons.

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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:29 am

That makes sense; it's the solution the British army uses and seems to be what the Canadian army intended to do from the outset of the new insignia. Rolling out the same changes to achieve consistency across all branches of the Canadian forces is only sensible.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:45 am

RCN.png
A Royal Canadian Navy vice-admiral, a Canadian Army warrant officer (Looks like Governor General's Foot Guards) and an RCN chief warrant officer.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:01 pm

Not trying to be cheeky, just pointing out a couple of things.
A WO in a guard regiment is officially called a Colour Sergeant and the CPO has a laurel wreath under his Canadian coat of arms insignia, so he's the Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (or maybe that's what you meant by RCN Chief Petty Officer).
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:41 pm

The official caption from the Twitter page: "Warrant Officer Timothy Perry @CanadianArmy awarded @Comd_RCN Bravo Zulu for #leadership. @cfcwo." Yes, I knew it was the CPO of the Navy.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:09 am

Sorry about that, just read it wrong.
Still wondering about the Foot Guards WO as I thought that change was official now (maybe they only use Colour SGT within the unit). Wonder if there are any CAF members on the board that may know about it.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:52 am

Guys Need some Authority on this

Can anyone Confirm if the Positional Insignia of the Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer

when that post is filled by an RCAF CWO does that insignia revert to the Grey colored or does it remain Gold?
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:26 pm

Good question. My guess would be that it remains gold as I can't see them doing a separate RCAF version for a rank that is for the whole CAF (but I could be wrong).
But, like you posted, maybe someone in the know can confirm it.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:25 am

trbaldwin wrote:Guys Need some Authority on this

Can anyone Confirm if the Positional Insignia of the Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer

when that post is filled by an RCAF CWO does that insignia revert to the Grey colored or does it remain Gold?



Looking at the publicity pics of the new service dress uniforms, the CWO of the RCAF still has the full-coloured version of the Royal Arms of Canada on his sleeves but the laurel branches beneath the arms are pearl grey; similarly, the released poster of the new ranks suggests that the laurel wreath around the crown for MWO will be grey although, again, on the jacket sleeve the Crown itself appears to have the correct colours. If the poster is correct then the new shoulder slides, however, show the entirety of each insignia in grey.

This doesn't directly address the issue of your question regarding a CFCWO appointed from the RCAF but, based on all of the above, I'd hazard a guess that the appointment insignia for the role will have the Arms in full colour but the wreath of maple leaves around them would most likely be grey. That's if anyone has even bothered to consider that possibility at this point...
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:46 am

Seen that with the Tunic Insignia,

Im more after info on the DEU Rank Slides for Shirts, as the Poster stops at CWO and does not show CWO-RCAF or CFCWO

But cool thanks for that Im just going to go with that the Slides would be embroiled Grey with Grey Wreath or Maple Leafs

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:
trbaldwin wrote:Guys Need some Authority on this

Can anyone Confirm if the Positional Insignia of the Canadian Forces Chief Warrant Officer

when that post is filled by an RCAF CWO does that insignia revert to the Grey colored or does it remain Gold?



Looking at the publicity pics of the new service dress uniforms, the CWO of the RCAF still has the full-coloured version of the Royal Arms of Canada on his sleeves but the laurel branches beneath the arms are pearl grey; similarly, the released poster of the new ranks suggests that the laurel wreath around the crown for MWO will be grey although, again, on the jacket sleeve the Crown itself appears to have the correct colours. If the poster is correct then the new shoulder slides, however, show the entirety of each insignia in grey.

This doesn't directly address the issue of your question regarding a CFCWO appointed from the RCAF but, based on all of the above, I'd hazard a guess that the appointment insignia for the role will have the Arms in full colour but the wreath of maple leaves around them would most likely be grey. That's if anyone has even bothered to consider that possibility at this point...
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:11 am

Additional rank titles being added to the Canadian Army for non-commissioned members:

CANFORGEN 187/14 COMD CA 033/14 271300Z OCT 14
UPDATE ON CA RESTORED RANK IMPLEMENTATION
UNCLASSIFIED

REFS:A. CANFORGEN 194/13 COMD CA 038/13
B. CANFORGEN 123/14 COMD CA 024/24
C. CANFORGEN 131/14 COMD CA 025/14

1. THIS MSG APPLIES TO ALL CAF OFFRS REG AND RES, CIC OFFICERS, AND HONORARY APPOINTEES WHO WEAR THE ARMY UNIFORM. THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RESTORED ARMY RANK CONTINUES TO PROGRESS AND STILL ON ORDER

2. ON 19 SEP 14, ALL GENERAL OFFICERS PUT UP THEIR RESTORED OFFICER RANK AS PART OF ARMY WEEK

3. ON 7 NOV 14, ALL FULL COLONELS THAT WEAR AN ARMY UNIFORM WILL PUT UP THEIR RESTORED OFFICER RANK PRIOR TO REMEMBRANCE DAY. THIS ALSO INCLUDES ALL COLONELS IN CHIEF, COLONELS COMMANDANT, HONORARY COLONELS, AND COLONELS OF THE REGIMENT

4. TAILORING OF RANK SLIP-ONS AND TUNICS CONTINUES TO BE THE DETERMINING FACTOR WHEN THE REMAINDER OF OFFICERS FROM LCOL TO OCDT THAT WEAR THE ARMY UNIFORM WILL BE READY TO PUT UP THEIR RESTORED RANK. THESE OFFICERS ARE DIRECTED TO EXPEDITE THE TAILORING OF THEIR DEU UNIFORM AND THE PICK-UP OF THEIR INITIAL TWO HIGH VISIBILITY (EVI) CADPAT RANK SLIP-ONS WITH EVI UNIT IDENTIFIER FROM CLOTHING STORES. IN THE NCR ONLY, FOR TAILORING CONCERNS PLEASE CONTACT MAJ LOMBARDO AT 613 617 3994

5. UNTIL ORDERED, LCOLS TO OCDTS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE RESTORED RANK EXCEPT ON THE NO 2 AND NO 2A MESS DRESS UNIFORMS WHERE IT IS ENCOURAGED

6. PLEASE DIRECT QUESTIONS ON THE DISTRIBUTION OF RANK AND UNIFORMS TO G4 SUPPLY 2 CWO LENNY WILLETT AT 613-971-7464

7. AS A SITREP ON THE RESTORATION OF OUR SOLDIERS NCM RANK NAMES: THE LEGISLATIVE AND IT SYSTEMS WORK REQUIRED FOR THE FORMAL RESTORATION OF OUR NCM RANK NAMES (TROOPER, GUNNER, BOMBARDIER, SAPPER, SIGNALLER, FUSILIER, RIFLEMAN, GUARDSMAN, COLOUR SERGEANT, ENSIGN, CRAFTSMAN) AND THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE RANK NAMES MUSICIAN, PIPER, DRUMMER, AND RANGER CONTINUES AND WILL BE ANNOUNCED WHEN FORMALIZED. PLEASE ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS TO GI HERITAGE, MR PATRICK BRYDEN AT 613-415-7707

8. SIGNED BY LGEN J.M.M. HAINSE, COMD CA
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby jrichardn2 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:50 am

A nice pic of the new general officer's rig. (This is the newly appointed commander—not GOC—of the 4th Canadian Division—basically the Army formations based in Ontario outside of Ottawa.)

Not much actually hearkens back to the pre-1968 uniform. Still the rifle-green unification uniform, still the Armed Forces badge on the beret, not a general officer's badge. The new stuff are the gorgets, and the crossed cutlass and baton on the shoulder straps.

Don't know why he's wearing the Ontario shield on his shoulder strap. Perhaps it represents Joint Task Force Central, which he also commands?

The green patch on his sleeve represents the 4th Division.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:57 am

The Shield below the BGen insignia will mean that he is or maybe at some point was ADC to the Lieutenant Governor of the Province

Also just a small point its not a Cutlas, it looks like one but it is in fact a Mameluke sword

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mameluke_sword#British_Army
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:13 am

Rank slip-on chart:
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14-053 ranks_08 ENG.jpg
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:50 pm

Im

hoping to have all of these up soon,

Work has been hectic

Also waiting on some information from the RCAF still to come through?
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:19 pm

The new rank insignia is now on the CF website. It shows the CFCWO does have pearl grey maple leaves around the Canadian coat of arms (just as people suspected).
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:07 am

I will hopefully have these sent to Pavel int he Comming Week or so
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:38 am

Updated RCAF (DEU) - Slip on and RCN(DEU) - Slip insignia sent to Pavel

RCAF CADPAT will come in a few days
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby Torg003 » Sun May 03, 2015 8:37 pm

I see they have been posted. Look good except for one small detail. On the RCN page, the senior appointment insignia that has the Arms of Canada with a laurel wreath underneath should have the rank title of Chief Petty Officer of the Navy, instead it reads - Command, Base, formation Chief Petty Officer (I assume just a cut and paste error as the RCAF equivalent has the correct name - Chief Warrant Officer of the Air Force).
Just thought I'd point that out in case someone wanted to correct it. If not, no biggie. Anyway, new pages look good, thanks for your hard work.
Cheers.
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Tue May 05, 2015 5:53 am

Also Should have updates to the Royal Canadain Army Cadet Corp and to the Royal Canadian Air Cadets to update their CIC Officers Rank Insignia
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Re: Nice to see the Canadian rank pages updated

Unread postby trbaldwin » Mon May 11, 2015 12:27 am

UPDATES SUBMITTED TO PAVEL
    Governor-General of Canada Insignia: Canadian Army DEU
    Cadet Instructors Cadre - Royal Canadian Army Cadet Corp
    Cadet Instructors Cadre - Royal Canadian Air Cadets
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