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FICTIVE RANK INSIGNIA

Dresden Files

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Dresden Files

Unread postby Jezz Jamer » Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:34 am

So I recently began reading the Dresden Files and thought that it would be fun to expand and design rank insignia for the Wardens of the White Council. However, I don't have a graphics design program so I thought that I would describe my ideas and if anyone is interested then they are free to us my idea to design the insignias themselves to be posted as a reply to this message.

-- E1 = WARDEN THIRD CLASS >> Grey Cloak and Silver Longsword of Office [standard for all Wardens] (Novice, is attached to a command element / approximately 3 years Time-In-Grade)

-- E2 = WARDEN SECOND CLASS >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak, light-gold Pentagram (Skilled, either patrols town with a magical presence independently or is in command of a Team/Crew of 2 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 3 yrs. T-I-G with 3 yrs. Time-In-Service)

-- E3 = WARDEN FIRST CLASS >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram with 1 light-gold Bar attached of equal width of Pentagram (Veteran, either patrols city with a magical presence independently or is in command of a Squad of 8 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 5 yrs. T-I-G w/ 8 yrs. T-I-S)

-- E4 = SENIOR WARDEN >> Embroidered on left breast or Cloak; light-gold Pentagram with 2 light-gold Bars attached of equal width & spaced apart (Elite, either patrols large city with a magical presence independently or is in command of a Group of 26 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 7 yrs. T-I-G w/ 15 yrs. T-I-S)

-- E5 = MASTER WARDEN >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram with 3 light-gold Bars attached of equal width & spaced apart (Senior Elite, either Oversees/Patrols a few towns/cities with a magical presence independently or is in command of a Platoon of 80 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 12 yrs. T-I-G w/ 28 yrs. T-I-S)

-- O1 = WARDEN COMMANDER SECOND CLASS >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram, with 1 light-gold Bar attached of equal width of Pentagram, with 1 light-gold five-pointed Star attached to Bar (Oversees small State or part of large State, or is in command of Company of 242 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 7 yrs. T-I-G w/ 7 yrs. T-I-S)

-- O2 = WARDEN COMMANDER FIRST CLASS >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram, with 1 light-gold Bar attached of equal width of Pentagram, with 2 light-gold five-pointed Stars attached to Bar (Oversees large State or a few small States, or is in command of Battalion of 728 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 7 yrs. T-I-G w/ 13 yrs. T-I-S)

-- O3 = WARDEN SENIOR COMMANDER >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram, with 1 light-gold Bar attached of equal width of Pentagram, with 3 light-gold five-pointed Stars attached to Bar (Oversees several States/Continental Region or is in command of a Legion of 2186 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 12 yrs. T-I-G w/ 28 yrs. T-I-S)

-- O4 = WARDEN CAPTAIN >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram, with 1 light-gold Bar attached of equal width of Pentagram, with 4 light-gold five-pointed Stars attached to Bar (Oversees Continent or is in command of a Brigade of 6560 junior ranking Wardens / approx. 28 yrs. T-I-G w/ 40 yrs T-I-S)

-- O5 = HIGH CAPTAIN OF THE WARDENS OF THE WHITE COUNCIL >> Embroidered on left breast of Cloak; light-gold Pentagram, with 1 light-gold Bar attached of equal width of Pentagram, with 1 light-gold seven-pointed Star that is slightly smaller than the Pentagram attached to Bar (Commander-in-Chief of the Wardens of the White Council / approx. 80 yrs. T-I-S)

Please let me know what you think, subject is open for debate!
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Wardens of the White Council

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:38 am

Hi Jezz,

I'm not all that familiar with the novels which are the original source for this but if I recall correctly, the only distinctions worn by the Wardens are their gray cloaks and the silver sword (not very practical; it's not a strong metal - but I guess that's not taking into account their enchanted properties!). The only known "grades" that I am aware of are Warden, Commander and The Captain.

I loved your idea, however and it immediately gave me a very clear mental image - and that's usually when I have to start doing some drawings...!

I've extrapolated even further to play with some ideas of uniforms (beyond the gray cloaks) and I've used your original insignia descriptions as the basis for the medallion/brooch-like insignia worn on the coats and shirts. I've adapted the designs slightly for use on the cloaks, where they would be embroidered directly (hence the absence of the "bar" for the Commander grades and the Captain) but the same basic concept is retained.

The basic "enlisted" grades all get the same uniform; the junior (1-, 2- and 3-star insignia) "commander" grades get only minor changes and no embellishments; the junior Captain grade (4-star) get some additional embellishments such as the black oakleaves on collar/cuffs and the High Captain gets gold. I also tried using the insignia in an "inverted" pattern with the pentagram having two points up and the stars or bars arranged above it - this works just as well and I'll post an example of that too if you'd prefer them this way.

If you wanted to be slightly more "true" to the books, I'd use the three "officer"-grade uniforms and say: plain for Wardens, black detailing for Commanders and gold for the Captain (with no specific rank insignia).

(To anyone who's looked at some of my previous work, yes, I've plagiarised myself slightly but this was mainly to save me some time in doing the drawings!)

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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:45 am

Oh, and, thinking about it, I'd probably ditch the pseudo-Renaissance hats in favor of just using the hoods on the cloaks - maybe the hats should be for full-dress only...?!

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Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:45 am

Great work as always! I just started to read the novels - glad to have discovered them.

As to the uniforms: how about replacing the berets with hats? You know, the kind of XVII. century broad brimmed hats, one brim turned up and fastened to the crown with a pentagram?

And one more thing: shouldn't the uniforms of all Warden Commanders have some difference from those of the Wardens? I mean, the High Captain has gold embroidery on the collar, the Captain black embroidery and the others have nothing. How about giving silver embroidery to the High Captain, thick black embroidery the Captain and a zig-zag pattern black lace to the Commanders?
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Unread postby Jezz Jamer » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:41 pm

Hi Medic,
I have admired your work for a while now, I think I've viewed every post you've put up in this forum. I was surprised that you chose to design the descriptions I gave and very please that my idea was a trigger for your creativity in this case.

All I can say is WOW, I love what you've done with my idea. Its better than I imagined. The insignias are perfect and I love the uniforms. Your idea to eliminate the "bars" for the embroidery on the Cloaks was a good idea. Looking back they would have probably look rather odd.

While I like the quasi-Renaissance berets, I don't think I like them with the Cloak. I think your after-thought about them was interesting though. However, I thought about it too and I have an alternative, I think the berets would go best with the service uniform. Then have the century broad-brim hats that Miklos was talking about with the dress uniform, maybe add a large feather.

I really like the embellishments you added to the High Captain and the Captain. However I do agree with Miklos that the Warden Commanders should have a different uniform from the Wardens. Perhaps the High Captain could keep the gold broad band oak-leaves, but give the Captain silver instead of black, and then the Commanders would have the black oak-leaves but in and insignia pattern.

Think U.S. Navy, Senior Commander would have the broad band of oak-leaves (just like what you did with the Captains) similar to a Rear Admiral Lower half. Commander First Class would have two narrow bands of oak-leaves similar to a Lieutenant Senior Grade. Commander Second Class would have one narrow band of oak-leaves similar to an Ensign. Those insignias would be on both the collar and the cuffs.

The size of the bands on the cuff would be broader than what you currently have for the Captains and Senior Commander, but for the junior grade Commanders the size would the same (or maybe slightly smaller) as what you currently have.

Does all that make sense?

You are right about the number of ranks in the books there are only three: Captain, Commander and Warden; but I wanted to add more since the Wardens are not only the police of the Council but also the military. Which is why I add the "responsibilities of rank" in the description.

I also thought about having the pentagram insignia itself inside a ring similar to a U.S. Marshal or a Texas Ranger's badge. I do wonder what that would look like but I think maybe I like the insignias better without the rings.

Again I love what you've done, you really did my idea justice. Thanks!
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Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:48 pm

Jezz Jamer wrote:I really like the embellishments you added to the High Captain and the Captain. However I do agree with Miklos that the Warden Commanders should have a different uniform from the Wardens. Perhaps the High Captain could keep the gold broad band oak-leaves, but give the Captain silver instead of black, and then the Commanders would have the black oak-leaves but in and insignia pattern.

I also thought about having the pentagram insignia itself inside a ring similar to a U.S. Marshal or a Texas Ranger's badge. I do wonder what that would look like but I think maybe I like the insignias better without the rings.



I thought of silver only, because the use lots of it. Also, how about replacing black with iron grey? After all, that's what they use against fairys.

As to the pentagram - Harry's amulette is a pentagram inscribed in a circle, they use circles to perfom magic ... I know it would look like a Texas Ranger badge ... but again, perhaps the Rangers were envisioned to be Wardens in disguise ...
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Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:53 pm

Oh, one more thing: I seem to remember that Kravos used a topside-down pentagram for his dealings, so perhaps it should be avoided.
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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:27 am

Hi guys,

I have some ideas that I'm working on - I'll post them when I'm done. I'm deliberately trying to avoid anything too directly similar to any specific contemporary designs but here's my thoughts for now:

I was trying to stick to a very limited color palette as the use of simple gray seemed to suit the Wardens and what they were meant to be. I also wanted to avoid a lot of detailed embellishments, except, perhaps. towards the very senior grades.

I like the long tunics and the quasi-Renaissance berets (I did think about having different colors/sizes of feather plumes attached to the left hand side of these for the various grades). I'm not sure about the low boots for the "enlisted" grades - looks a bit 80's...! Overall, I guess that these uniforms would best be retained for ceremonial use; given the contemporary setting of the books, I did think I'd try for a simpler, more contemporary day-to-day look (+/- service dress) that could be worn under the cloak.

I toyed with using either a contemporary flat-topped cover with a bill or a garrison cap - I may yet come back to that idea...

I considered the idea of putting a circle around the pentagram but evenually opted not to as it somehow distracted from the significance of its shape.

The black oak leaves/paired buttons and gold cap cords were originally intended for the 3- and 4-star commander grades, with the plainer uniform for the 1- and 2-star grades but I changed this to just the 4-star grade when I realized that Jezz had named this "Warden-Captain." I had considered using gold cap cords for all the commanders but rejected it on the grounds that it was too much like contemporary US usage and a bit obvious! I also originally used a progressive pattern of black/gray +/- gold stripes down the outside of the pants but removed these as they looked too fussy for what I had in mind - if these become specifically dress/ceremonial uniforms then I may restore them!

I have some ideas for additional uniform detailing for the 1- to 3-star commander grades but, for the senior grades, I intend to keep the black and gold oakleaves as they are for now. The same embellishments (or a simpler/more subtle version of them) will be carried over to the working/service uniforms.

I also have an updated version of the longsword that I'm much happier with.
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The new, improved Wardens' longsword

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:28 pm

This is much more like what I had in mind - I wanted it to be largely functional but to have some simple aesthetic touches too.

I think this should be the same for ALL grades - although the design is standard, the sword is something that is personal to each Warden and would therefore follow them throughout their time in office - hence no change for the senior Warden ranks.

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Swords

Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:55 pm

I'm really sorry to squash your ideas, but it won't work. The novels clearly state that every Warden has a sword fitted to his/her personality: for instance Captain Carpaccio has a rapier, Warden Morgan has a broadsword, Warden Ramirez has a scimitar. So unfortunately, no uniform issue sword.

One more thing. The Wardens are under the White Council. Therefore their accoutrements should be white as well. That's the reason why I suggested to chage gold to silver and black to dark grey. Don't forget there is also the Blackstaff, who is unique - so every other White Council employee should not use black as Waffenfarbe.
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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:48 pm

Fair point; I forgot about the more individual nature of the swords - but the basic principle I was thinking of was correct: the individual retains their own sword; hence there should be no sword detailing specific to rank.

That said, they don't wear uniforms either, so the sword was an extrapolation of the concept of uniforms for the Wardens!

I take your point about the white instead of black - indeed, I was already thinking along those lines anyway - will post both versions for comparison.
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Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:11 pm

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:That said, they don't wear uniforms either, so the sword was an extrapolation of the concept of uniforms for the Wardens!


Not so! When Harry leaves the beheading of the Korean warlock he leaves his mantle, robe and stole on the back seat of the Blue Beetle. So, we know that he has the greay mantle of the Wardens, also a robe and a stole ... also grey or white (silver). Can you work from there?
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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:54 am

Ha! Again, fair point about the robes! I must go back and actually check the books!! I admit that I was, however, was actually referring more to the concept of a more "structured" force that Jezz hypothesized, with rank insignia, etc.

There are two different themes here - one is the hypothetical Warden "army" as described above and the other is the Wardens as they actually appear in the books. The latter always sort of struck me as having a slightly nebulous structure and made me think more of a sort of Order of magical fighting "monks" (hence the robes, stole, cloak etc...). That's pretty easy to illustrate too and I'll try to do that as well as the stuff based on Jezz's concept.

Anyway, here's a few updated versions of the initial drawings based on Jezz's idea - I've used a sort of celtic knotwork pattern for the collar and cuffs of the 1- to 3-star commander grades and this is also used for the shirt collars. The second set of drawings show the same thing but using white in place of black. I did try using silver instead of gold but it just looks too much like white and the gold gives a nice detail of color against the gray.

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The less contemporary monastic look also appeals to me - but could still incorporate Jezz's "rank" insignia - I'll see what I can come up with!



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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:58 am

Oh and I forgot to add...

The Blackstaff - now *there's* a concept that could be interesting to develop...

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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:46 pm

The Blackstaff. Disclaimer: this is very much intended to be from Jezz's "expanded universe" and is very definitely *NOT* directly from the books! smilies-04

Unique black uniform variant: all black with silver embellishments. Has buttons in pairs like the Warden Captains but with a silver version of the other officers' celtic knot embroidery.

Unique pentagram+seven-point star badge (no laurel wreath and short "bar" on the medallion version). The sword belt is also black with silver fittings. The idea is that the incumbent's own sword would be taken and carefully re-fitted in black and silver and the scabbard re-covered.

(Oh, and, yes, I haven't changed the hats yet...!)

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Just for fun...

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:43 am

...and NOTHING to do with the books!!

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Re: Dresden Files

Unread postby Miklós Lovász » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:57 pm

Medic Alert! Medic Alert! Medic Alert!
Pictures missing! And some of us miserably neglected to d/l them :(
Could you do smthng about it?

Cheers!
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Re: Dresden Files

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:20 pm

Miklós!

Hi, hope all is good with you my friend!

I’ll take a look and see if I can find them — I should be able to access the originals.

If re-posting looks like too much hassle then I’ll email them to you, although I don’t really regard them as my best work... (!)

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