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FICTIVE RANK INSIGNIA

Star Wars Imperial Insignias

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Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby WJTW » Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:01 pm

Hi,

First of all, I am new here. Ah, I see a fellow Singaporean here.

Anyway, I was wondering if it was possible for the inclusion of the rank insignias of Star Wars' Imperial Navy. I hope the site owner is allowing new ones to be added!

One great site to check out on the insignias is the site in the technical commentaries on TheForce.net
Link: http://www.theforce.net/swtc/insignia/badges.html

That site also includes examples from the movies.

The insignia system actually includes those little cylinders seen in the pockets. If two officers have the same PLAQUE configuration (commanders and captains), the seniority of the captain can only be distinguished from the cylinder. LESSER cylinders = higher rank.

Hope that site would be helpful.

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Unread postby philodraco » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:43 pm

Do you know the rank of Darth Veder?
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Unread postby Nila MadhaVa » Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:24 am

Darth Vader didnt hold any rank as such. he was a Sith (a type of evil jedi) and he held the "position" of Executor, which means he was given his command from the emperor, directly, there fore he "out-ranked" everyone exept the Emperor.

I hope that answers your question.
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Unread postby philodraco » Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:07 pm

thanks very much
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Unread postby lordziba » Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:39 am

[quote="Nila MadhaVa"]Darth Vader didnt hold any rank as such. he was a Sith (a type of evil jedi) and he held the "position" of Executor, which means he was given his command from the emperor, directly, there fore he "out-ranked" everyone exept the Emperor.

That's true only after battle of Yavin, before, Darth Vader was under Grand Moff command, e.i. Tarkin. His position was rather the observer, an Imperial Emissary on Death Star.
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Unread postby Nila MadhaVa » Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:17 am

thats true in that case...but what i was trying to point out is that Vader's command did not come from a rank but directly from the Emperor...so you are right lordziba and so was i...he was still the Executor, but Grand Moff Tarkin was in command of the Death Star project, so he had command over the death star etc...if you catch my meaning...so techinicaly Vader was just a guest, but not in command...i hope i made some sence with this post lol.
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Unread postby marcpasquin » Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:05 pm

not to dimish what the creators of that website have done but are those rank simply supposition on their part or does it come from some official publication ?

The reason I ask is that by their own admission there seems to be contradictory informations for almost every rank. One might almost say that the creators of Star Wars never realy decided on a ranking system and that it is only speculation on the part of the webmasters.

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Unread postby Erskine Calderon » Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:43 pm

You are probably correct. These items were handled by a costume department that used, by their own admission, "what looked good at the time." They were inconsistent, practically du jour. [And IMHO silly.]

Any universe that would incorporate Ewoks and Jar-Jar Binks into it's mythology is immediately suspect at best... :wink:

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Unread postby Jacob Lessing » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:11 am

Although I agree with Erskine, I must applaud the creators of that site. I happened upon it over a year ago and have had it bookmarked ever since...but then again, it is perhaps just a little too much investment of time?
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Unread postby GamusMaximus » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:50 am

Are you guys working on this?
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Unread postby melonhead82 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:34 am

http://www.galactic-empire.org/ranks/ranks.htm

This has the list of the Imperial Ranks
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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:10 pm

Ah. This old chestnut again...

The basic principle was that bigger rank plaques broadly indicated higher rank and, just occasionally, some plaques were used consistently to indicate similar ranks.

Outside of this, there was, however, absolutely NO specific "scheme" that the wardrobe department followed with any degree of consistency - largely, it was just "whatever looked good at the time," as has been stated above. There is NO clear indicaction of the relative significance of numbers or colors of squares on the plaques - or their relative arrangement. Equally, the so-called "code cylinders" were additionally just decorative elements to the Imperial Officer uniforms, albeit the rule was generally that the more senior the officer, the more "cylinders" they had in their top pockets. If I recall correctly, the use of specific numbers of "cylinders" as secondary rank markings that helped to differentiate between ranks was purely a fan-devized concept, necessary to try to rationalise the inconsistent use of the different sizes/colors of primary rank plaques.

ANY attempt to fully rationalise the Imperial insignia from the original Star Wars trilogy is therefore an exercise in futility and will therefore lead to frustration, compromise and madness...!! smilies-15

Star Wars has always been interesting in that successive published and fan fiction ideas have crept into the overall accepted canon over the years - but, again, there has been little consistency between these ideas so, rather than helping, it has often succeded only in confusing things further.

Anyone who suggests that they DO know the exact scheme is simply lying. There have been some imaginative attempts at TRYING to rationalise the impossible but all have inherent flaws and inconsitencies. There have been some pretty good attempts though.

If I was to try to do it myself (which I won't - I don't have the time at the moment!) I'd have to suggest starting from a simple numerical premise, accepting that it will be impossible to rationalise all the on-screen insignia, and would focus on creating a rank insignia scheme that was at least internally consistent, probably using just red and blue squares and then adding in the gold squares to indicate seniority at a certain level - perhaps they are more about additionally identifying an individual's ROLE rather than their absolute RANK per se...? A certain degree of variation may be acceptable for the Stormtroopers as they seem to exist as a separate force with their own internal structure.

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Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:20 pm

These were just me messing about with Imperial officer uniforms a while back...

Image


...and this was a sketch of what I thought officers of the Emperor's Royal Guard might wear when not in full robes/armor. (Yes, I know it's NOT consistent with some of the things from the various novels / comics etc so don't reply to tell me that!! smilies-04 )

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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby ViTverd » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:03 am

All that is in the head and share Star Wars Technical Commentaries this fan fiction. The official Essential Guide to Warfare reads:
Image
Please note that this is only the insignia of the Navy, not the Army.
Line Officers wearing gray uniform, and Specialist Officers wear black (except generals). It Specialist are responsible for arming, stormtroopers, pilots and engineering.
Pilots ranks are different from the rest:
Colonel - Group Captain.
Major - Wing Commander.
Commander - Squadron Leader.
Captain - Fight Lieutenant.
Lieutenant - Flying Officer
Officer - Pilot Officer
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:21 am

In honor of the new movie being released and my enjoyment of the Star Wars story I started thinking about the original trilogy uniforms. Medic is right that even though Lucas hired John Mollo to work on uniforms the art department just used whatever they though looked good for the scene. Hey, they were making movies!

The Star Wars Ep.IV Imperial ranks will become relevant with the new Star Wars movie: Rogue One, which takes place around the time of the first Death Star.

I put a lot of though into a system of ranks that could be built from the examples seen in the movie. I wanted to avoid as much supposition as possible and use just canon examples and some reason. We are given some baseline information in the movies so I have very selectively included non-movie "canon" and only where it is so widely accepted that it might have as well been in the movie.

I take for granted that in the Galactic Empire that they are alien to us. Even the humans are not of Earth, far from it in fact, so our conventions do not need apply in whole. The Empire gets by with less rank positions than terrestrial Earth armies. They have droids and amazing super-computing capability that automates command to a degree that makes less manpower possible. Conversely, the top positions become inflated to compensate. Officers compete more for stations and particular commands more so than for grades of rank. Titles still matter though.

Identification is another matter. Medic is right again, more means more important. Later in Empire Strikes Back the system becomes more clear, but in A New Hope the ranks are limited to six tiles besides Tarkin's twelve. So we must assume color plays the role to differentiate grades. There is not much to work with, the costume people really diversified the rank plaques in unhelpful ways, but I think there can be a system if we got some direction from Lucasfilm, or Rogue One finally gives us more to work out a system.

The Visual Guide to the new Force Awakens movie does provide for the ranks of the First Order and the Resistance. I will make a chart at some point.
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Star Wars A New Hope Imperial Ranks
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby SFMRAS » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:37 pm

DarthGaddafi wrote:In honor of the new movie being released and my enjoyment of the Star Wars story I started thinking about the original trilogy uniforms. Medic is right that even though Lucas hired John Mollo to work on uniforms the art department just used whatever they though looked good for the scene. Hey, they were making movies!

The Star Wars Ep.IV Imperial ranks will become relevant with the new Star Wars movie: Rogue One, which takes place around the time of the first Death Star.

I put a lot of though into a system of ranks that could be built from the examples seen in the movie. I wanted to avoid as much supposition as possible and use just canon examples and some reason. We are given some baseline information in the movies so I have very selectively included non-movie "canon" and only where it is so widely accepted that it might have as well been in the movie.

I take for granted that in the Galactic Empire that they are alien to us. Even the humans are not of Earth, far from it in fact, so our conventions do not need apply in whole. The Empire gets by with less rank positions than terrestrial Earth armies. They have droids and amazing super-computing capability that automates command to a degree that makes less manpower possible. Conversely, the top positions become inflated to compensate. Officers compete more for stations and particular commands more so than for grades of rank. Titles still matter though.

Identification is another matter. Medic is right again, more means more important. Later in Empire Strikes Back the system becomes more clear, but in A New Hope the ranks are limited to six tiles besides Tarkin's twelve. So we must assume color plays the role to differentiate grades. There is not much to work with, the costume people really diversified the rank plaques in unhelpful ways, but I think there can be a system if we got some direction from Lucasfilm, or Rogue One finally gives us more to work out a system.

The Visual Guide to the new Force Awakens movie does provide for the ranks of the First Order and the Resistance. I will make a chart at some point.

They look nice. They remind me of this:
http://web.archive.org/web/200206142038 ... k/rank.htm

I look forward to seeing your take on Episode VII.
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:41 am

As of Empire Strikes Back the ranking system becomes more clear. And now with the new canon being established it appears we are getting additional information on galactic rank. As of Episode VII the resistance uses a modified Alderaanian system and the First Order uses a very unique system of arm (cuff) bands. I found it interesting that they both contain the ranks to about 6-7 and leave out the intermediary grades used on Earth. No lt. colonels, or first/second lieutenants, and they have not lesser grades of general or admiral, just general or admiral. These new forces are smaller on both sides, but the First Order is much smaller than the Empire. So, I have included a few intermediate grades, but tried to stay conservative.
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Star Wars Empire Strikes Back Imperial Ranks
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:06 am

I have edited the Empire Strikes Back Imperial ranks to differentiate between the army and navy. The army having slightly more narrow red and blue squares.

** I know, where are the ultra ranks like grand admiral? They are not part of the new canon. I'm not saying my chart is canon. This chart is my interpretation, based on the evidence shown, of how the Galactic Republic and later Empire considered military hierarchy.
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Star Wars Imperial Ranks - Empire Strikes Back
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:20 am

According to the new canon Marvel Comics Star Wars: Darth Vader, General Tagge from the Death Star lived. The Emperor backed him and he was promoted to grand general. His insignia is the same as that worn by grand admiral Thrawn, but he does not wear a white uniform.

Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee Interview - Star Wars Celebration Anaheim on StarWars.com (Leland Chee came up with giving Tagge the title of Grand General.)

I added it here for both Army and Navy.
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ESB4GG.jpg
Star Wars post-Yavin Imperial ranks
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:30 pm

With the new Rogue One Star Wars movie teaser trailer we can see a guy in a white cape and what appears to be Imperial Security Bureau uniform with admiral level rank. Note that he has code cylinders whereas the ISB guy in the original trilogy did note have code cylinders.

Attached here is only the ranks seen in the films and one other (Grand Adm/Gen) that has been specifically made canon recently.
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Iranks.jpg
Rogue One
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby ViTverd » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:20 am

DarthGaddafi wrote:According to the new canon Marvel Comics Star Wars: Darth Vader, General Tagge from the Death Star lived. The Emperor backed him and he was promoted to grand general. His insignia is the same as that worn by grand admiral Thrawn, but he does not wear a white uniform.

Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee Interview - Star Wars Celebration Anaheim on StarWars.com (Leland Chee came up with giving Tagge the title of Grand General.)

I added it here for both Army and Navy.


Very good work! But I have additions to Imperial Navy.

We know nothing about army rank insignia but we know more about Imperial Navy ranks and insignia from The Essential Guide to Warfare. It is not 100% Canon but I think it steal be useful.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/5/52/Essential-Guide-To-Warefare-Imperial-Ranks.png/revision/latest?cb=20130710215216

In a description written what specialist rank officers wear black uniform (exept general). Colonel, Major and Commander in air force called Group Captain, Wing Commander and Squadron Leader. Other ranks in air force have prefix Flight. Other services have similar prefix to all rank.
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Re: Star Wars Imperial Insignias

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:27 pm

I am not a fan of The Essential Guide to Warfare. Lucasfilm and Disney usually hire people with little to no military experience to write stuff like this and these writers make very crude assumptions or conclusions regarding structure.

The movie costume department has been very inconsistent. a shame considering they originally hired John Mollo, who was one of the best uniformologists.
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