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FICTIVE RANK INSIGNIA

Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

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Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:16 am

Based upon watching the movie a few times and buying the Star Wars Force Awakens Visual Dictionary, this chart represents the observable and stated rank insignia.

I want to thank Medic_In_Uniform for the use the uniform templates.
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Star Wars The Force Awakens First Order Ranks
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby marcpasquin » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:00 pm

DarthGaddafi wrote:Based upon watching the movie a few times and buying the Star Wars Force Awakens Visual Dictionary, this chart represents the observable and stated rank insignia.

I want to thank Medic_In_Uniform for the use the uniform templates.


looking up aurebesh, this seems to be the translation, the last 2 characters of the squad leader and sergeant don't appear to be part of the canonical list, is it possible a mistake was made in transcription ?

colonel = kaplan
major = tarkin
captain = dillon
lieutenant = power
sergeant = ro[?]
squad leader = hal[?]
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:27 pm

Marc,

There was a "letter" symbol on the last two that I could not find in Auerbesh. These were the "letter/numbers" used in the Visual Dictionary and that is authored by Pablo Hildago, who is in charge of the canon for Lucasfilm.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Erskine Calderon » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:06 pm

You guys are adorable trying to figure this out.

Like the film makers gave even a second's thought to this.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby marcpasquin » Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:42 am

Erskine Calderon wrote:You guys are adorable trying to figure this out.

Like the film makers gave even a second's thought to this.


surprisingly enough, they did. the original trilogy had some english language text which was later edited for the re-release(s) and replaced with Aurebesh. The text however was not randomly generated but followed this transcription key:

Image

This is why I was able to give the transcription above and why the presence of 2 unknown character is so odd.

PS: On a personnal note Erskine: not wanting to start a fight but being called "adorable" comes off as a tad condescending.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:11 pm

Those mystery symbols are numbers.
RO-8
HAL-7
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby marcpasquin » Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:58 pm

Count0Down wrote:Those mystery symbols are numbers.
RO-8
HAL-7


cheers for that. I guess that means they have adopted the a different version of aurebesh numbers for the new trilogy instead of the latin derived ones.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Tue Jan 12, 2016 1:41 pm

Just curious about First Order insignia for:
Petty officer, Chief petty officer, Ensign, Lieutenant, Commander and Captain?

The Visual Dictionary shows a chief petty officer and petty officer, but their rating name is unclear.

Stormtroopers based on toys and kids costume use a white pauldron for a squad leader, black for Sergeant and red for officer.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:26 pm

Oh the symbols for 4 and 7 look similar, so it might be HAL-4.
The symbol for 4 is a rectangle with a double length rectangle to left row.
The symbol for 7 is a rectangle with a triple length rectangle to left row.

The image is a bit small.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:42 pm

Count0Down,

I think the CPO and PO are Sergeant and Squad Leader, respectively. I will have to double check the Visual Dictionary, but I think they were those cuff bands.

The Visual Dictionary only had the grade of Admiral with red piping to the cuff bands, but I think the inference is that all naval troops would have the red piping to differentiate from army and other services. Although, I am not sure I saw red piping on the CPO and PO you mentioned in the Visual Dictionary.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:28 pm

The kids Stormtrooper costume from Disney Store, comes with all three pauldrons.

There is a label attached explaining the colour coded ranks.

Will have to consult the Visual Dictionary myself again at home.

Resistence Officer ranks are shown, based on the old Rebel rank plaques, red for army and blue for navy.
Was wondering if you they have insignia for NCOs?
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:58 pm

I have been working on Stormtrooper ranks and insignia. You are correct that the shoulder pads indicate rank based on the color: Black (trooper) White (sergeant) Orange (officer).

I am finishing up a chart of the Resistance based upon the Visual Dictionary and yes, their ranks are influenced heavily by the Alderaanian ranks in the early Rebellion of the original trilogy. Makes sense considering that General Leia Organa is the head of the Resistance and is "Alderaanian."

The Rebel ranks in the original trilogy (ANH/ESB) were also not really though out by the film makers and are pretty random. A logical system can be devised but requires conjecture like the Imperial ranks require.

I, as well as others, at the Encyclopedia of Ranks have a wealth of history and knowledge of military ranking systems and insignia. Hesitant to apply conjecture, but at the same time I want a system that makes sense.

I have not yet seen evidence of Rebel/Resistance enlisted ranks.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:05 pm

Just checked the Visual Dictionary, I think it is HAL-4 as the symbol is shorter than the symbol for 8, when they should be the same height.

Chief Petty Officer Unamo and Petty Officer Thanisson armbands both seem to have the Aurebesh for "H" with the next letter looking like "A". It is clearer on Thanisson's picture.

So the PO insignia seems to match the Squad Leader insignia.

I presume their was either a costume error or naming error re Unamo?
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:21 pm

Possibly a "Trap" error to catch out copyists?
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby marcpasquin » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:08 am

something that just occured to me, is it specifically mentioned that the armlet are rank insignias or just something that is being assumed ?

regarding the rebel alliance enlisted, are there any named characters with any ranks of sergeant or such ? otherwise, the production might have decided to have an "all-officer" army a bit like some white russian regiments.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Dorward_Bis » Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:34 am

Marc, I wonder if they ever had a rank insignia system for enlisted and NCOs - looks like indeed their military hierarchy (for both Rebels and an Empire) resemble the White Officers' Regiments during the Russian Civil War, as you've mentioned)
And taking into consideration the cumbersome and non-ergonomic classical Imperial rank insignia system with plenty of blue-red-yellow squares when one has to waste some time to calculate the number of these squares to know the rank of an interlocutor, this system was elaborated by a person who didn't possess even the elementary uniformological knowledge).
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:37 am

The official Visual Dictionary for Star Wars The Force Awakens, shows rank plaques for the Resistance and arm band ranks for the First Order.

Likewise both the toys and costumes for Stormtroopers state the pauldrons are again for for rank.

The only contradiction I see in the VD is as stated above a CPO with the rank of a PO.

It is possible the armies and navies in star Wars are more similar to the Police were everyone starts of at the bottom.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:26 pm

The Empire had enlisted ranks, but there were not many, probably only squad leader and sergeant similar to the First Order. Conversely, petty officer and chief petty officer for the Imperial Navy.

I do not think the Empire needed to have many grades of rank considering the amount of automation (droids) and super-computing available. Many like Stormtroopers would mostly have individual rank indicated in the Heads Up Display (HUD) contained in their helmet. The shoulder pad rank likely for garrison duty and civilian recognition.

The Rebellion and Resistance are very small organizations that may be cellular in structure and be sponsored by different individuals and groups across the galaxy, like Alderaan before its destruction and Mon Calamari after. They would use a hodgepodge of ad hoc ranks to suit purpose or sponsor.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:11 pm

Theoretical ranks for First Order Navy:

Admiral
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant
Ensign
Chief Petty Officer
Petty Officer
Technician

What do you think?
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens First Order

Unread postby Count0Down » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:16 pm

Real world ranks in the army and navy, originally had fewer ranks.
Originally you went from Lieutenant to Commander, before Lieutenant Commander was created.

I don't see a problem with fewer ranks.
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Re: Star Wars Force Awakens The Resistance

Unread postby DarthGaddafi » Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:02 am

Here are the ranks of the Resistance. They are described as a small outfit sorta supported by elements of the Republic, but also has serious enemies within the Republic. Leia Organa is the General-in-Chief and modestly wears no rank insignia. The ranks appear to be of Alderaanian influence.

Of note- Admiral Ackbar serves in the resistance and wears the blue Resistance Navy admiral rank not Mol Calamari ROTJ rank.
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Star Wars Force Awakens Resistance Rank Insignia
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