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AMERICA - OTHER & CIVIL ORGANIZATION BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

US CAP (Civil Air Patrol)

Civil organizations, Other organizations

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US CAP (Civil Air Patrol)

Unread postby Robb Mavins » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:44 pm

The US Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary service (Civilian) which is analogous to the civilian US Coast Guard Auxiliary.

I know there was some insignia previously listed but the nice part about this is that it lists both senior and junior member insignia

Civil Air Patrol Rank Insignia
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/caprank.shtml

It lists:
Cadet Program Basic & NCO Grades
CAP Cadet Officer Grades
CAP Senior Program Transition Grades
CAP Senior Program Grades


For more info on CAP
http://www.cap.gov
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Re: US CAP (Civil Air Patrol)

Unread postby hhbooker2 » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:11 pm

Robb Mavins wrote:The US Civil Air Patrol is an auxiliary service (Civilian) which is analogous to the civilian US Coast Guard Auxiliary.

I know there was some insignia previously listed but the nice part about this is that it lists both senior and junior member insignia

Civil Air Patrol Rank Insignia
http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/caprank.shtml

It lists:
Cadet Program Basic & NCO Grades
CAP Cadet Officer Grades
CAP Senior Program Transition Grades
CAP Senior Program Grades


For more info on CAP
http://www.cap.gov


ROBB: I knew the reason the Civil Air Patrol got rid of WARRANT OFFICER rank was because the United States Air Force discontinued the warrant officer programme, however the USAF did not eliminate their enlisted programme, so why did the C.A.P. do away with E.M. ranks too? I know many who prefer to serve as SENIOR MEMBER without rank as they liked being Airmen, Sergeants, and Warrant Officers and disliked commissioned officers from prior military experience and besides, who wants to be a SECOND LIEUTENANT over 40 years of age? According to their own regulations, those of us who were NCO or WO before the ranks were dropped, we can apply to hold those obsolete ranks, yet we are denied when we try despite the regs supporting us? Used to be you could rise quickly from Second Lieuteant to Lieutenant Colonel, now they make you have many years time in grade between promotions. Sure wish they would have Airman to Master Sergeant and warrants too! Sarge Booker :) :) :)
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Unread postby Smitty » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:52 am

CAP does have Warrant Ranks, the ranks of FO, TFO, SFO. However these are used for the transitional period for Senior Members aged 18 to 20. This was done to help ease former cadets such as myself into the Senior side of the program. However there are several flaws with this program as it causes quite a bit of confusion.

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Former AFJROTC Cadet Colonel
Former CAP Cadet Second Lieutenant
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Unread postby hhbooker2 » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:24 am

Smitty wrote:CAP does have Warrant Ranks, the ranks of FO, TFO, SFO. However these are used for the transitional period for Senior Members aged 18 to 20. This was done to help ease former cadets such as myself into the Senior side of the program. However there are several flaws with this program as it causes quite a bit of confusion.

Flight Officer Smithson, CAP
Former AFJROTC Cadet Colonel
Former CAP Cadet Second Lieutenant


SMITTY: Yes, seems I saw some silver bars with 1, 2, and 3 thin blue stripes on them, didn't quite understand how they related to C.A.P.? Why couldn't they just accept 18-year olds into the adult programme as they can enlist in the United States Air Force at age 18-years old. I'll bet if the C.A.P. restored E-1 through E-7, they'd get more people to join up! Sarge Booker :) :) :)
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Unread postby Smitty » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:41 am

CAP does allow personnel who served in paygrades E-4 to E-9 in the US military (active or reserve) to assume that rank after they complete level 1 of the training program. The catch is that they are not recognized by national and are viewed no differently than a SM without grade.

18 year olds are in the adult program but hold Flight Officer ranks. The FO ranks each correspond with a company grade rank.

FO --> 2d Lt
TFO --> 1st Lt
SFO --> Capt

When a member turns 21 their rank becomes one of those 3 if the held an FO rank.
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Unread postby hhbooker2 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:32 am

Smitty wrote:CAP does allow personnel who served in paygrades E-4 to E-9 in the US military (active or reserve) to assume that rank after they complete level 1 of the training program. The catch is that they are not recognized by national and are viewed no differently than a SM without grade.

18 year olds are in the adult program but hold Flight Officer ranks. The FO ranks each correspond with a company grade rank.

FO --> 2d Lt
TFO --> 1st Lt
SFO --> Capt

When a member turns 21 their rank becomes one of those 3 if the held an FO rank.


SMITTY: If C.A.P. National does not recognize prior service E-4 to E-9 ranks after reaching Level 1, what is that point of that if National see's them as Senior Member? So, if the FO turns 21, they are a Second Lieutenant and the TFO comes in as a First Lieutenant and an SFO comes in as a Captain? So if you wear USAF NCO chevrons and go on a trip to National Headquarters, then you take off those chevrons before arriving there, yes? Sarge Booker :?: :?: :?:
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Unread postby Jefferson 900 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:44 am

Sarge

No The E-4 to E-9 ranks is recongnized and can be worn to NHQ but grade shows up as SM on the National record just the same as FO, TFO, and SFO

I was a TFO and I am thinking Smitty is a FO if we look at our records it shows as a SM as those grades are not recorded at NHQ. Mine recently changed to 1st Lt.
Justin T. Adkinson, TFO, CAP
Deputy Drug Demand Reduction Officer
Group 1 Headquarters - Virginia Wing
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Unread postby hhbooker2 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:46 am

Jefferson 900 wrote:Sarge

No The E-4 to E-9 ranks is recongnized and can be worn to NHQ but grade shows up as SM on the National record just the same as FO, TFO, and SFO

I was a TFO and I am thinking Smitty is a FO if we look at our records it shows as a SM as those grades are not recorded at NHQ. Mine recently changed to 1st Lt.


JUSTIN and SMITTY: Guess putting them down as SM while letting them wear other than commission officer rank insignia is a sly way to go around their own regulations? When I was in the C.A.P. in 1968-1970, I was a Master Sergeant. When I went in the C.A.P. in 1980-1981, they had me as SM for Senior Member and promoted me to Second Lieutenant and I told them I would refuse that rank and said I either stay a SM or go back to being an E-7; the set of orders had both promotion and demotion on the same page, would you believe? Someone over 40 should never have to be a 2nd Lieutenant, maybe a 1st Lieutenant or a Captain at the least, especially if they have prior military service! And I did not like being told the answers to the First Level and said what was the point of my studying? One smart-mouth Captain told me to leave if I did not agree with being furnished the answers to the questions, so I told her husband, the Colonel and he chewed her out for being so rude and had agreed it would have been better to allow us to answer questions ourselves. Same happened when I took a test as a Security Guard and asked the person giving the test to allow me to take it out of ear-shot to see how I'd do, really! Sarge Booker :) :) :)
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Unread postby Smitty » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:56 pm

hhbooker2 wrote: Someone over 40 should never have to be a 2nd Lieutenant, maybe a 1st Lieutenant or a Captain at the least, especially if they have prior military service!


When I was in AFJROTC my ASI (SNCO Instructor) a retired MSgt who had been a Master Military training instructor decided to join the CAP Squadron by his town to help out the cadet program there. At first they tried to make him a 2d Lt but he turned it down in order to wear his NCO chevrons. Because of theis he was not treated with respect by some members because he wasn't an officer. He left the program after about a year because he was disgusted with how it was run. Many of the people who were disrespectful were CAP 2d Lts and 1st Lts who had never served a day in the service.
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Unread postby hhbooker2 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:57 pm

Smitty wrote:
hhbooker2 wrote: Someone over 40 should never have to be a 2nd Lieutenant, maybe a 1st Lieutenant or a Captain at the least, especially if they have prior military service!


When I was in AFJROTC my ASI (SNCO Instructor) a retired MSgt who had been a Master Military training instructor decided to join the CAP Squadron by his town to help out the cadet program there. At first they tried to make him a 2d Lt but he turned it down in order to wear his NCO chevrons. Because of theis he was not treated with respect by some members because he wasn't an officer. He left the program after about a year because he was disgusted with how it was run. Many of the people who were disrespectful were CAP 2d Lts and 1st Lts who had never served a day in the service.


SMITTY: When I was in the California State Military Reserve, CA SMR is a State Defense Force or a State Guard, not to be confused with "militia" groups, we who served as enlisted were often talked down to by those same second and first lieutenants. Only 10% of the CA SMR had enlisted and the rest were officers, mostly commissioned, not many warrants. We enlisted were all prior service while most of the lieutenants were never in the national guard, reserves, or regular armed forces, not unlike those characters who showed disrespect to the for USAF NCO, Smitty! Even the new lieutenants in the regular military do not behave that badly as they are under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) and there are plenty of captains and majors to put them in their proper place. The new second lieutenant is dependent upon the senior NCO for advice. I now serve with the American Volunteer Reserve (http://www.continuetoserve.org) and this time as a warrant officer, but the difference is our lieutenants are professional medical personnel from Russia and The Philippines who respect others regardless of rank. AVR performs final honours for deceased veterans and their survivors and we receive no pay and buy our own uniforms and do what the Department of Defense asks us to do. Our oldest members fought in the Battle of Berlin in 1945. C.A.P. needs to tighten the grip on discipline on senior members, not just cadets, for sure, Smitty! Sarge Booker :) :) :)
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Unread postby Smitty » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:13 am

That they do. There are some members who treat it as if it were a real job and I have seen them attempt to make an active duty NCO salute them.
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Unread postby hhbooker2 » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:00 am

Smitty wrote:That they do. There are some members who treat it as if it were a real job and I have seen them attempt to make an active duty NCO salute them.


SMITTY: I've seen active duty NCO's laugh in their faces if they demanded a salute from them. At the National Capitol Wing headquarters in Washington, D.C. (Bolling A.F.B.), out of 60 members, 27 were either full colonel or lieutenant colonel, with only one NCO who was 20 and had to be 21 to get a commission, I opted to be an NCO and asked to be assigned to a Cadet Squadron, many adults wanted nothing to do with young people. Sarge Booker :) :) :)
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Unread postby Jacob Lessing » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:36 pm

Keep in mind that the CAP is a paramilitary civilian organization. It's silly to demand that it be run as though it were an army. It's not an army; it's a SAR/DR agency, so most of its members are more like warrant officers anyway. The grades are there only as an aid to authority recognition (remember, many CAPers even opt to wear a business jacket with a nametag instead of a uniform) and to hearken back to the CAP's roots in the Army Air Corps. Just as no CAP officer should expect a salute from an active-duty NCO in the army, no retired NCO should expect to find a purely-military structure within the CAP. It is, after all, the Civil Air Patrol.

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