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AMERICA - OTHER & CIVIL ORGANIZATION BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

NOAA Enlisted ranks

Civil organizations, Other organizations

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NOAA Enlisted ranks

Unread postby Herrwiggly » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:47 pm

Hi everybody herrwiggly here, on the above organisation, there are officers only, the enlisted ranks as far as I know follow USN pattern. My source is The Natuional Geographic Magazine dated Dec. 1943 (yes I do realise things change in 60 years) but I just wondered if the ranks for enlisted personnel were still in situ. Anyone help?. :D :D :D Cheers.
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US Coast & Geodetic Survey

Unread postby Robb Mavins » Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:58 am

Hi herrwiggly
No the NOAA Corps contains only officers, back when they where the US Coast & Geodetic Survey, they had “rates” but the men who wore them were technically civilian sailors in government service. The officers did (and do) hold a commission from Congress just as all US military, and the USPHS Commissioned Corps officers do. The NOAA Corps is pretty cool ranging in size between 290-320 officers over the last 20 years. All officers hold some form of marine science degree and perform both science and shipboard duties. Many hold advanced degrees in things like oceanography, marine biology etc. (Rank insignia is here http://www.noaacorps.noaa.gov/insignia.html )

Those 1943 National Geographic’s pages are quite good, I scanned mine a couple of years ago. I put up the USC&GS page here http://forum.rankinsignia.info/viewtopic.php?t=1439
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My interests are any Navy, Marine or Auxiliary Sea Service rank insignia or history.
Slightly anal retentive but at least I have a sense of humour about it
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NOAA Corps ranks

Unread postby dcfowler1 » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:45 pm

The NOAA Corps (ESSA Corps 1965 - 1970, and US Coast and Geodetic Survey Field Corps 1917 - 1965) should not be classed as a "civil organization", rather, it is by law, one of the seven uniformed services of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, NOAA Commissioned Corps).

The officer corps currently uses ranks of ensign through rear admiral (upper half). The rank of vice admiral has been held only once, by Henry Karo, 1965-67, while he was an associate administrator of NOAA (then ESSA).

There have never been any warrant officer ranks authorized.

Echoing Robb, enlisted ratings up to chief petty officers were used by licensed seamen assigned to USC&GS ships. I have seen drawings of E-8 and E-9 color insignia, but have never seen any evidence of their use.

The "enlisted" rating badges fell out of use following World War II, and the seamen aboard now wear civilian clothes, or khakis without insignia.

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Re: NOAA Corps ranks

Unread postby hhbooker2 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:20 pm

dcfowler1 wrote:The NOAA Corps (ESSA Corps 1965 - 1970, and US Coast and Geodetic Survey Field Corps 1917 - 1965) should not be classed as a "civil organization", rather, it is by law, one of the seven uniformed services of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Public Health Service Commissioned Corps, NOAA Commissioned Corps).

The officer corps currently uses ranks of ensign through rear admiral (upper half). The rank of vice admiral has been held only once, by Henry Karo, 1965-67, while he was an associate administrator of NOAA (then ESSA).

There have never been any warrant officer ranks authorized.

Echoing Robb, enlisted ratings up to chief petty officers were used by licensed seamen assigned to USC&GS ships. I have seen drawings of E-8 and E-9 color insignia, but have never seen any evidence of their use.

The "enlisted" rating badges fell out of use following World War II, and the seamen aboard now wear civilian clothes, or khakis without insignia.

Dave


DAVE: When I published 13 issues of the "CROW'S NEST" newsletter, almost 400 pages, I showed on several ocassions the petty officer ranks of the United States Coast & Geodetic Survey on white background, navy blue, and khaki in both silk thread embroidery and in bullion too. The master copies of the "CROW'S NEST" are now held by Stephen Decatur Rohde of Sunnyvale, California. These were latter made into two volume set and bound with two sets going to the library of the AMERICAN SOCIETY OF MILITARY INSIGNIA COLLECTORS and the other two sets went to the NAVAL HISTORICAL CENTER (Library) at the Washington Navy Yard in the District of Columbia. Gave away my own copies to a collector who said he needed them more than I did, maybe he did? But, I have definately seen World War Two USC&GS petty officer rating badges. Sarge Booker :) (You can borrow these from the ASMIC Library if you are a member in good standing). :)
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Re: NOAA Corps ranks

Unread postby dcfowler1 » Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:20 am

hhbooker2 wrote:But, I have definately seen World War Two USC&GS petty officer rating badges. Sarge Booker :) (You can borrow these from the ASMIC Library if you are a member in good standing). :)


I have several copies of USC&GS uniform and personnel regulations from early in the century to the 60s. Rank insignia for PO3 through CPO was certainly authorized, but if you read the personnel regs, it does specify that they were to be used by licensed seamen serving on survey ships (due to the militarized chain of command). Questions to NOAA historians and personnel folks have confirmed this.

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Re: NOAA Corps ranks

Unread postby hhbooker2 » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:56 pm

dcfowler1 wrote:
hhbooker2 wrote:But, I have definately seen World War Two USC&GS petty officer rating badges. Sarge Booker :) (You can borrow these from the ASMIC Library if you are a member in good standing). :)


I have several copies of USC&GS uniform and personnel regulations from early in the century to the 60s. Rank insignia for PO3 through CPO was certainly authorized, but if you read the personnel regs, it does specify that they were to be used by licensed seamen serving on survey ships (due to the militarized chain of command). Questions to NOAA historians and personnel folks have confirmed this.

Dave


DAVE: I spoke with my friend Rudy Basurto, author of several books on the sea services and he has pictures of actual enlisted ranks of the men who served in the USC&GS and they are quite different than those of the Navy/Coast Guard in that the eagle rests upon a half-globe and it's wings positioned differently. There does not seem to be a big interest in collecting these and other non-Navy and non-Coast Guard insignia, etc.? My newsletter "CROW'S NEST" which had pictures on every page was limited as I knew of only a few naval collectors who wanted it and met only one person who collected USC&GS and USPHS, but he has gone to Davey Jones' Locker, sad to say! Sarge Booker :) :) :)
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