It is currently Mon May 22, 2017 8:27 pm
Change font size

EUROPE - MILITARY BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty officer ?

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines

Moderators: Miklós Lovász, Dorward_Bis, Medic_in_Uniform, kaldi, Chuck Anderson, Pavel Močoch, Erskine Calderon, Lukasz Gaszewski, ChrisWI, Zdzislaw Rudzki, Peter

Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty officer ?

Unread postby SGT MARCOS - BRAZIL » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:00 am

Hello , why the Royal Navy have only the rank of Chief Petty offcier and nothing more on the level of NCO , non commisioned officers , the US Navy have ,Chief , Senior Chief and Master Chief .
BRAZILIAN ARMY
SGT MARCOS - BRAZIL
VISITOR
VISITOR
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: BRAZIL

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby Dorward_Bis » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:49 am

Just a tradition, I suppose. Try to compare the number of enlisted and NCOs ranks of both British and American Armies, and you'll find the same situation.
aka Dorward and Dmitry Belokurov
User avatar
Dorward_Bis
ADMINISTRATOR
ADMINISTRATOR
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:57 pm
Location: Ukraine, Kiev

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby Logan616 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:43 am

There is no need for these ranks in the the Royal Navy. The duties currently performed by Senior/Master Chief Petty Officers (in the US Navy), Sergeant-Majors/Gunnery Sergeants (in the US Army and Marine Corps), and Senior/Chief Master Sergeants (in the US Air Force) are instead performed by Warrant Officers in the British Armed Forces.
Logan616
VISITOR
VISITOR
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:53 pm

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby jrichardn2 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:11 pm

Some years ago (someone with more knowledge than I will have the exact date) the top 4 Other Ranks in the Royal Navy were brought into alignment with the other British services, like this:

Chief Petty Officer, 1st Class --> Warrant Officer, Class I
Chief Petty Officer, 2nd Class --> Warrant Officer, Class II
Petty Officer, 1st Class --> Chief Petty Officer
Petty Officer, 2nd Class --> Petty Officer

Having said all that - even before that there was no _visible_ distinction between the two classes of Chief Petty Officer and Petty Officer.

The Royal Canadian Navy preserves the old rank scheme above, but since unification actually does distinguish between the classes with insignia.
jrichardn2
COMMUNICANT
COMMUNICANT
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby Torg003 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:00 pm

Don't want to seem too nit-picky, but your post wasn't totally correct.
The RCN did distinguish between the different classes of CPO and PO since about 1950. CPO1 had a crown above the 3 buttons on the cuff and PO2 had 2 crossed anchors without the crown above. All that happened during unification was replacing the traditional navy insignia with army rank insignia.
Torg003
VISITOR
VISITOR
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby Count0Down » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:37 pm

The Royal Navy uses Warrant Officer Class 1 and 2 instead of Master and Senior Chief Petty Officers.

Warrant Officers in the British military are different from Warrant Officers in the US military. In the US they are specialists who have similar status to commissioned officers. In the British military they are senior non commissioned officers.
Warrant Officer Class 1 in Royal Navy is equal to a Master Chief petty officer in United States Navy.

Royal Navy Ranks and Rates

Admiral of the Fleet*
Admiral
Vice Admiral
Rear Admiral
Commodore
Captain
Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant
Sub Lieutenant
Midshipman

Warrant Officer Class 1
Warrant Officer Class 2**
Chief Petty Officer
Petty Officer
Leading Rate
Able Rate

* Only held by retired Admirals and members of Royal Family.

** No new appointments, a Chief Petty Officer will be promoted to Warrant Officer Class 1.
Count0Down
VISITOR
VISITOR
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:26 pm

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby Necrothesp » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:27 pm

jrichardn2 wrote:Some years ago (someone with more knowledge than I will have the exact date) the top 4 Other Ranks in the Royal Navy were brought into alignment with the other British services, like this:

Chief Petty Officer, 1st Class --> Warrant Officer, Class I
Chief Petty Officer, 2nd Class --> Warrant Officer, Class II
Petty Officer, 1st Class --> Chief Petty Officer
Petty Officer, 2nd Class --> Petty Officer

Having said all that - even before that there was no _visible_ distinction between the two classes of Chief Petty Officer and Petty Officer.


The RN hasn't had more than one grade of PO since WWII (POs 1st Class wore officer-style uniform as all POs now do, POs 2nd Class wore seamen's rig). POs 1st Class certainly didn't become CPOs. Throughout most of the RN's history there was only ever one rank of CPO. A rank of Fleet Chief Petty Officer (FCPO) was introduced in 1973 as equivalent to WO1 in the Army and RM and WO in the RAF and wearing the same rank badge. This was renamed WO in the 1980s. The RN only had two ranks of WO between 2004 and 2014. You might be thinking of Charge Chief Petty Officer, which was an appointment, but not a rank, that existed from the 1980s or 1990s until it was replaced with the rank of WO2 in 2004.

So no, RN ranks were never brought into line with Army/RAF ranks as you say and chief petty officers have never been equivalent to WOs in the Army and RAF. They're equivalent to staff/flight sergeants and always have been.
Necrothesp
CORRESPONDENT
CORRESPONDENT
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:00 am
Location: Kenilworth, England

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby J.T. Broderick » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:07 pm

Necrothesp wrote:The RN hasn't had more than one grade of PO since WWII (POs 1st Class wore officer-style uniform as all POs now do, POs 2nd Class wore seamen's rig).


Petty Officer 2nd Class (foul anchor with crown) was eliminated in 1913. After 1920 the square rig was worn by petty officers for one year, after which they became "confirmed" and wore the CPO-style uniform.

Here are the WW2 rank equivalents as listed in King's Regulations and Admiralty Instructions, 1939:
ww2_relative_ranks_british.png
J.T. Broderick
CORRESPONDENT
CORRESPONDENT
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:33 pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby jrichardn2 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:47 am

Perhaps adding to the confusion (certainly mine) the Royal Canadian Navy, IIRC even before unification, made CPO1 equivalent to WO1, CPO2 to WO2, and so on down the line. Leading Seaman = Corporal, again IIRC. I can look up the tables later.
jrichardn2
COMMUNICANT
COMMUNICANT
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:32 pm

Re: Why Royal Navy have only one rank for Chief Petty office

Unread postby Torg003 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:39 pm

You are correct. The expansion of the CPO and PO ranks to 2 classes in the RCN happened in the early '50s. CPOs became equivalent to WOs (I and II) and POs were the equivalent of SGTs and Staff SGTs. I've seen a few rank charts from that era, even have one in an old encyclopedia (but obviously unable to post it here).
Torg003
VISITOR
VISITOR
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:28 pm

Advertisement

Email Converter - our sponsor


Return to EUROPE - MILITARY BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Search

User Menu