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EUROPE - LAW ENFORCEMENT BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

New ranks in the French National Police

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New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:22 am

Some years ago, the rank of Commissaire principale was abolished. In 2016 the new rank of Commissaire général was introduced. I have yet to find its rank insignia.

The lieutenants and captains of the medium career will be merged to one rank, that of captain in 2017.

The police is also planning to introduce two new ranks in the medium career in 2022. See the attached figure. However, the Gendarmerie is very much opposed to letting the Police have the rank insignia of LTC and COL: "Gendarmerie refuses to see police officers wearing colonel and lieutenant-colonel braid." http://www.opex360.com/2016/10/13/la-gendarmerie-refuse-de-voir-des-officiers-de-police-porter-des-galons-de-colonel-de-lieutenant-colonel/
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Helios88 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:16 pm

The National Police abolished a Commissaire rank and then now introduces a new Commissaire rank; similarly, they abolish two Medium ranks and intriduce two new Medium ranks?
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby marcpasquin » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:30 pm

Luke2 wrote:Some years ago, the rank of Commissaire principale was abolished. In 2016 the new rank of Commissaire général was introduced. I have yet to find its rank insignia.


Seems there is a fair bit of contradictory infos. Based on this page, the rank doesn't exist:

http://www.lapolicenationalerecrute.fr/Accueil/Zoom-sur/Corps-et-grades-mode-d-emploi

But based on this page, it would be a simple branch with 2 bars:

http://www.ensp.interieur.gouv.fr/Devenir-commissaire

And to complicate matter, an undated rank chart I have has the rank of commissaire général wear the same insignia as the contrôleur géneéal on the page above.
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Hi Marc:´

Your first link is dated 2015; hence obsolete. Your second link names three ranks, but only gives insignia for the two first; the leaf with two bars is the rank insignia of ''commissaire divisionnaire.''

Below is a link to the decret insituting the rank of ''commissaire général.'' Décret n° 2016-808 du 16 juin 2016, publié au Journal officiel du 18 juin 2016, relatif à l’instauration du grade de commissaire général de police.

http://lessor.org/17496-2/#C0MeI53jpQo8IJgc.99

Your French is better than mine, so you might be able to find something of general interest.
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby marcpasquin » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:13 pm

Luke2 wrote:'

Below is a link to the decret insituting the rank of ''commissaire général.'' Décret n° 2016-808 du 16 juin 2016, publié au Journal officiel du 18 juin 2016, relatif à l’instauration du grade de commissaire général de police.

http://lessor.org/17496-2/#C0MeI53jpQo8IJgc.99

Your French is better than mine, so you might be able to find something of general interest.


Thanks,

the notice states that the corps of conception and direction had formally 2 ranks ("grades"): commissaire de police & commissaire divisionnaire de police.

To these and above will now be added a new rank referred to as "with functional access" or in other word, requiring having occupied certain position and not just having a lot of seniority.

The rank of commissaire général de police is composed of 5 "normal" rungs ("échelons") and 1 special rungs

After spending a bit too much time looking around for the insignia or even the name of a single commissaire général and only finding over and over copies of the text of the decree, I have come to the conclusion that while the rank might exist on paper, it's actually quite likely that no one has been promoted to the rank yet and so no insignias has been posted (or even designed if promotion is far off).

This wouldn't be that odd as the last paragraph on the page mention that the table of promotion is to be set up on the 16th of december 2016 at the latest so the first commissaire général might not receive their promotion before the end of this year.

also of note the fairly strict requirements of:
- being a commissaire divisionnaire de police but less then 59 years old
- spent 6 years as a director or employed in a superior position
- spent 8 years occupying a superior function as defined by ministerial decree
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:54 pm

Commissaire_divisionnaire.jpg
Commissaire_divisionnaire
Thank you, Marc!

I am making a guess here, that the new rank will have a leaf and three stripes. What do you Think?
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby marcpasquin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:37 am

Luke2 wrote:
Commissaire_divisionnaire.jpg
Thank you, Marc!

I am making a guess here, that the new rank will have a leaf and three stripes. What do you Think?


sounds fairly reasonable considering the pips are reserved for high appointments and not ranks. I do wonder if each "échelon" will be indicated in some fashion or if it will be strictly a pay grade matter.

while doing this research, I also incidentally read that the gendarmerie had pressured the government not to grant stars to non-military police forces. I find it odd though that they have an issue with generals but don't seem to have any real issue with the other ranks insignias.
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:15 pm

I find your arguments very plausible. But the échelons are purely pay grades; each rank has a number of échelons, based on seniority.

Well, the Gendarmerie acutally do have issues with the proposed rank insignia for the commandant divisionnaire; re-read my first posting.

My arguments from a Gendarmerie point of view, would have been that both the new ranks with proposed rank insignia of LTC and COL, still are subordinate to the lowest rank of commissaire; so it would be to much bling for the positions, since a commissaire divisionnaire is the equivalent of a COL and a commissaire covers the span of MAJ/LTC.

But the Gendarmerie argues more along this line: "Policemen are not Soldiers, if they wanted to be Soldiers they should have joined the Gendarmerie; and been deprived of their right to join a union. Why should a police officer have the same rank insignia as the commanding officer of a combat regiment or a naval ship?"

See this link: http://www.assogendarmesetcitoyens.com/ ... -Nationale
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby marcpasquin » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:09 pm

Luke2 wrote:I find your arguments very plausible. But the échelons are purely pay grades; each rank has a number of échelons, based on seniority.

Well, the Gendarmerie acutally do have issues with the proposed rank insignia for the commandant divisionnaire; re-read my first posting.

My arguments from a Gendarmerie point of view, would have been that both the new ranks with proposed rank insignia of LTC and COL, still are subordinate to the lowest rank of commissaire; so it would be to much bling for the positions, since a commissaire divisionnaire is the equivalent of a COL and a commissaire covers the span of MAJ/LTC.

But the Gendarmerie argues more along this line: "Policemen are not Soldiers, if they wanted to be Soldiers they should have joined the Gendarmerie; and been deprived of their right to join a union. Why should a police officer have the same rank insignia as the commanding officer of a combat regiment or a naval ship?"

See this link: http://www.assogendarmesetcitoyens.com/ ... -Nationale


That's actually an odd argument to me (theirs, not yours). A lot if not the majority of police forces and other government sanctioned uniformed services the world over have insignias similar to the military of their countries so clearly the insignias should be seen as indication of government employment and not strictly military.
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:13 pm

Directeur_Général_Office_National_des_Forêts.png
Directeur_Général_Office_National_des_Forêts.png (22.32 KiB) Viewed 1713 times
In France itself, the fire brigades, Office national de la chasse et de la faune sauvage, Office national de eau et des milieux aquatiques, les Parcs nationaux de France, and Office national des forêts are using military like rank insignia, including general's star. So your point is well taken.
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:05 pm

The last news about the Commandant Divisionnaire rank insignia, is that the stripes are gone, and the rank insignia will be a simple Acanthus leaf. I suppose it means the one that is illustrated above. Now the police union is up in arms against that decision.

See:
http://www.sudouest.fr/2017/03/26/polic ... 2-4776.php

Rather funny headline: Police and gendarmery in war about a braid.
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby marcpasquin » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:50 pm

Luke2 wrote:The last news about the Commandant Divisionnaire rank insignia, is that the stripes are gone, and the rank insignia will be a simple Acanthus leaf. I suppose it means the one that is illustrated above. Now the police union is up in arms against that decision.

See:
http://www.sudouest.fr/2017/03/26/polic ... 2-4776.php

Rather funny headline: Police and gendarmery in war about a braid.


this lines has some interesting implication:

"Tout juste créé, le grade de commandant divisionnaire de police devait ainsi hériter des cinq barrettes couronnant, dans l’armée ou la gendarmerie, lieutenants-colonels et colonels. Patatras. Quelques jours avant de tomber au champ du déshonneur politique, Bruno Le Roux aura soudainement supprimé cet apanage, proposant en retour une simple feuille d’acanthe fraîchement cueillie dans les tiroirs du ministère."


english (emphasis mine):

"Only just created, the rank of commandant divisionnaire de police was to inherit the 5 stripes worn by, in the army or the gendarmerie, lieutenant-colonels and colonels. Pratfall. A few days before falling on the field of political dishonor, Bruno Le Roux was to suddenly suppress this appanage, proposing instead a single acanthus leaf freshly harvested from the drawers of the ministry


based on this, it is possible that instead of a branch like on the commissaire, it might very well be a single leaf.

If so, they would have to be careful not to draw some unfortunate visual association:

Image
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Luke2 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:47 pm

197869_1_vlcsnap-2015-01-13-18h43m23s221_cr_big.jpg
As long as they don't start to wear it on the collar patches. They had quite a row about it, a while ago when the Russian Postal Service introduced new black uniforms.

See the attachement. I don't understand the first line the baby is saying; but then she says: "This is Hitler!"
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby Dorward_Bis » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:04 pm

Luke, the first baby's line means "I'm lost", but with usage of some idiomatic words)
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Re: New ranks in the French National Police

Unread postby marcpasquin » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:36 pm

Dorward_Bis wrote:Luke, the first baby's line means "I'm lost", but with usage of some idiomatic words)


that looks like some postal worker you don't want to go postal.
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