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GENERAL DISCUSSIONS (Rank comparison, translation issues etc)

Royal Navy Warrant Officers' Positions

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Royal Navy Warrant Officers' Positions

Unread postby Chuck Anderson » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:32 pm

Hi Everyone!

I have a couple of questions about the Warrant Officer ranks of the Royal Navy.

(1) Warrant Officer Class I
[Rank Insignia: Royal Coat of Arms]
(a) What positions within the Royal Navy could a person of this rank hold?
(b) How would a person of this rank in the Royal Navy be addressed?
(c) Would a person of this rank be considered to be like a Master CPO?

(2) Warrant Officer Class II
[Rank Insignia: Crown within a Wreath]
(a) What positions in the Royal Navy could a person of this rank hold?
(b) How would a person of this rank in the Royal Navy be addressed?
(c) Would a person of this rank be considered to be like a Senior CPO?

Thanks!!!

Chuck Anderson
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Unread postby jrichardn » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:34 pm

Someone else will know the years when the changes but took place, but ...

What's now PO and CPO used to be PO2 and PO1.

What's now WO2 and WO1 were CPO2 and CPO1.

(This was true in the Royal Canadian Navy at unification in '68. I think it was true in the RN at that time, too.)

STANAG 2116 makes RN's WO1 equivalent to USN's MCPO (OR9) and WO2 to SCPO (OR8).

In the old days in the RN (shown in Justin's wonderful pages) Warrant Officer was equivalent to Acting Sub-lieutenant (USN Ensign), and Commissioned WO to Sub-lieutenant (USN Lt j.g.).

Cheers, Richard Nelson
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Unread postby Chuck Anderson » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:02 pm

Hi Richard!

Thank you so much for your information.

I was also wondering how the two Royal Navy Warrant Officer ranks were addressed (or otherwise referred to).

For example, the highest ranking Warrant Officer grade in the Royal Navy, (the one with the Royal Coat of Arms), is eqivalent to what, Regimental Sergeant-Major in the Royal Army?

It seems that they wouldn't be addressed or referred to as Sergeant-Major. Since the two Royal Navy Warrant Officer Ranks are equivalent in the STANAG to Senior Chief Petty Officer and Master Chief Petty Officer, would they also be addressed or referred to as "Chief", "Senior Chief" or "Master Chief"?

Thanks!

Chuck Anderson
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jrichardn wrote:Someone else will know the years when the changes but took place, but ...

What's now PO and CPO used to be PO2 and PO1.

What's now WO2 and WO1 were CPO2 and CPO1.

(This was true in the Royal Canadian Navy at unification in '68. I think it was true in the RN at that time, too.)

STANAG 2116 makes RN's WO1 equivalent to USN's MCPO (OR9) and WO2 to SCPO (OR8).

In the old days in the RN (shown in Justin's wonderful pages) Warrant Officer was equivalent to Acting Sub-lieutenant (USN Ensign), and Commissioned WO to Sub-lieutenant (USN Lt j.g.).

Cheers, Richard Nelson
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Unread postby jrichardn » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:27 pm

Warrant Officer I in the Royal Navy is equivalent to Warrant Officer I in the British Army (not "Royal Army"; long story why not). The rank badge, the Royal Arms, originated in the Army.

Regimental Sergeant Major is an appointment, not a rank, held by a WO1.

Don't know the answers to your other questions - but I doubt British warrant officers are referred to by their U.S. equivalent titles. :-)

Cheers, Richard Nelson
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Unread postby LONDON » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:01 pm

1) Warrant Officer Class I
[Rank Insignia: Royal Coat of Arms]
(a) What positions within the Royal Navy could a person of this rank hold?

Command Warrant Officer, Executive Warrant Officer

(b) How would a person of this rank in the Royal Navy be addressed?

Mr/Mrs/Miss by Officers, 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' by junior ranks

(c) Would a person of this rank be considered to be like a Master CPO?

WO1 is NATO OR-9 equivalent to a US Master Chief - the senior non-commissioned personnel on a ship is the Executive Warrant Officer - equivalent to a Command Master Chief in the US Navy

(2) Warrant Officer Class II
[Rank Insignia: Crown within a Wreath]
(a) What positions in the Royal Navy could a person of this rank hold?

This rank is held by senior technicians e.g. in Weapons Engineering - essentially assistant managers to Engineering Officers

(b) How would a person of this rank in the Royal Navy be addressed?

Mr/Mrs/Miss by Officers, 'Sir' or 'Ma'am' by junior ranks

(c) Would a person of this rank be considered to be like a Senior CPO?

It's the equivalent rank (OR8) but whether the responsibilities are exactly the same, I'm not sure.
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Unread postby LONDON » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:11 pm

The Officer Grade Warrant Ranks were abolished in the Royal Navy and Royal Marines in 1949 and WOs were reintroduced in the RN and RM in 1970.

The following links provide more detail:

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Pers-Warrant%20Rank.htm

http://www.godfreydykes.info/THE%20ROYAL%20NAVY%20WARRANT%20OFFICER%20PART%20ONE.htm
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Shoulder insignia on Royal Navy uniform

Unread postby stunsal » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:59 pm

I couldn't find a specific string to this question so I thought this group might help. I saw a film which pictured a Royal Navy commander with a gold wing badge on his right shoulder. The wings I think had a parachute in the middle. Does anyone know what this is. Thanks.

CAG
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Unread postby Necrothesp » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:10 am

jrichardn wrote:Someone else will know the years when the changes but took place, but ...

What's now PO and CPO used to be PO2 and PO1.

What's now WO2 and WO1 were CPO2 and CPO1.

(This was true in the Royal Canadian Navy at unification in '68. I think it was true in the RN at that time, too.)

No, this isn't true for the RN. CPO has always been a single rank. There were once two grades of PO, but that was phased out before WWII. The old-style "officer" WOs were phased out in 1949. The new rank of Fleet Chief Petty Officer (FCPO) was introduced in 1970 (wearing the Royal Arms). It was renamed Warrant Officer in the early 1990s. The rank of WO2 was introduced in 2004 (it had formerly been Charge Chief Petty Officer, a senior grade awarded to people with CPO rank) and the former WO was thus renamed WO1.
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Unread postby Necrothesp » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:16 am

LONDON wrote:The Officer Grade Warrant Ranks were abolished in the Royal Navy and Royal Marines in 1949 and WOs were reintroduced in the RN and RM in 1970.

It should be noted that the Royal Marines may have lost the rank of Warrant Officer between 1949 and 1970, but they never lost the grades of Quartermaster Sergeant and Regimental Sergeant Major - they just became ranks instead of WO appointments.
Last edited by Necrothesp on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shoulder insignia on Royal Navy uniform

Unread postby Necrothesp » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:20 am

stunsal wrote:I couldn't find a specific string to this question so I thought this group might help. I saw a film which pictured a Royal Navy commander with a gold wing badge on his right shoulder. The wings I think had a parachute in the middle. Does anyone know what this is. Thanks.

CAG

They're British jump wings, worn by all parachute-qualified personnel. Pretty much identical badges are used (although with variations in colour) by all the British Armed Forces except the SAS, who have their own distinctive pattern.
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Unread postby LONDON » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:55 pm

Necrothesp wrote:
LONDON wrote:The Officer Grade Warrant Ranks were abolished in the Royal Navy and Royal Marines in 1949 and WOs were reintroduced in the RN and RM in 1970.

It should be noted that the Royal Marines may have lost the rank of Warrant Officer between 1949 and 1970, but they never lost the grades of Quartermaster Sergeant and Regimental Sergeant Major - they just became ranks instead of WO appointments.


The Royal Marines introduced army equivalent ranks of WO1 and WO2 in 1915 and these remained until 1920 when the WO2 rank was abolished and the WO1 rank was given the same status as Royal Navy Warrant Officers and Royal Marines WO Gunners (i,e, Officer Status). After 1920, Quartermaster Sergeants were appointed as Company Sergeant Majors, whereas Staff Sergeant Majors held the Navy equivalent rank of WO. There were also Commissioned Officers from Warrant (similar to the CWO in the US armed forces) with appointment titles such as Commissioned Sergeant Major, Commissioned Gunner etc.

WO and Commissioned WO ranks in the Royal Marines and Royal Navy were renamed Commissioned Officers and Senior Commissioned Officers in 1948 (collectively known as Branch Officers). These ranks were abolished in 1957, being replaced by Special Duties (SD) Officers.

The NCO rank of Regimental Sergeant Major was introduced in the Royal Marines in the 1940 and in the early 1970s when Warrant Officers were reintroduced in the Royal Marines and Royal Navy, this rank became an appointment for a Warrant Officer Class 1 (WO1). At the same time the rank of Quartermaster Sergeant became Warrant Officer Class 2 (WO2).

WO1 and WO2 are the current warrant ranks in the Royal Marines.
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