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GENERAL DISCUSSIONS (Rank comparison, translation issues etc)

Rank insignia English name

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Rank insignia English name

Unread postby Pavel Močoch » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:55 pm

In order to unite the signs which show the name?

For example

- First lieutenant
- 1st Lieutenant
- Lieutenant 1st class
- Lieutenant First class

and so on

?
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Re: Rank insignia English name

Unread postby Dorward » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:04 pm

Well, I suppose both - numerical and verbal - are legitimate. Numerical allows to shorten the title, which is vital when the title is long, and verbal looks more aesthetic (imho). Besides, as I know, both - say, First Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant are used officially.
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Re: Rank insignia English name

Unread postby jrichardn2 » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:47 pm

The United States uses First Lieutenant, but the other English-speaking armies use just Lieutenant. My suggestion is to use the original as a guide: if it has no modifiers, than translate it as Lieutenant. If it has a modifier (e.g., Primero), then use its translation into English.

More broadly I'd prefer more literal translations than trying to force them in to a U.S. or British scheme. I'll use pre-Federal German here. If there's no rank between Oberst 'Colonel' and Generalmajor 'Major-General' I see no reason to translate Generalmajor as Brigadier-General - even though it is equivalent to that rank in the U.S. Army.
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Re: Rank insignia English name

Unread postby Dorward » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:25 am

Brigadier General cannot be an equivalent to Generalmajor, because some armies have this intermediate rank between Colonel and Major General, but some armies traditionally neglect this rank. So, Generalmajor should be translated as Major General, that's natural.

Another example -the Russian Imperial Army since 1854, when Major rank was canceled. Since 1854 the ober-officer's line was as "Praporschik - Podporuchik - Poruchik - Shtabs-Kapitan - Kapitan". Now, if we wish to show their understandable equivalent, what is to be done? For instance, "Praporschik" can be translated both as Junior (Third) Lieutenant or Chief Warrant Officer. "Shtabs-Kapitan" is equivalent to "Captain", and "Kapitan" is equivalent to "Major". But such a way of an interpretation sounds incorrect - "Shtabs-Kapitan" should be translated as "Staff-Captain", and "Kapitan" is as "Captain".
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Re: Rank insignia English name

Unread postby SFMRAS » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:09 am

I think a combination of translation and NATO Rank Codes (if Warsaw has Rank Codes, include them as well.)
Example:
Sottotenete: Sub Lieutenant. OF1
Tenete: Lieutenant. OF1
Capitano: Captain. OF2

Capitano di Corvetto: Captain of (the) Corvette. OF3.
Capitano di Fregata: Captain of (the)Frigate. OF4.
Capitano di Vascello: Captain of (the) Battleship/Vessel. OF5.

Similarly, Capo/Cabo would be translated as Chief or Head, not Corporal, with the appropriate OR Code.
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Re: Rank insignia English name

Unread postby Dorward » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:14 pm

Dear SFMRAS,

I suppose the naval ranks are quite specific, and I agree that from the naval point of view there should be no Corporals - just Petty Officers. But as I remember, "Chief" is not a rank, "Chief" is a functionary title)).

If seriously, most of ranks are of a land-forces origin, and, if you have noticed, most of translations are made in accordance with the US Army system, which is (imho) more suitable than a pure NATO one with their OF and OR.

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Re: Rank insignia English name

Unread postby SFMRAS » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:15 pm

Not only are Land ranks taken for newer services, but they are often more senior, too.
While it's geared towards the US System, that has some drawbacks.
Most officer ranks seem to line up among countries, but the same is not true of sub-officer ones. Are a cabo, a capo, a UK corporal, US corporal, and a Canadian corporal equivalent to each other in duties? In length in service? I've been up for twenty hours, so my brain's a little foggy, but I think the NATO codes might be able to help 'explain' where/how the relative ranks align.
But, then again, it could be the lack of sleep talking.
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