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AMERICA - MILITARY BRANCH & RANK INSIGNIA

US Space Force

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines

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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:07 pm

Thanks guys -- feedback noted! smilies-15

As I understand it, the USAF use the First Sergeant role as a special duty appointment rather than a single rank. The appointee is effectively the senior enlisted advisor for that unit, with responsibilities for the welfare and conduct of all enlisted members in the unit. Depending on the size of the unit, the substantive grade of the First Sergeant may be E7 to E9. They wear grade chevrons specific to that appointment with traditional diamond-shaped "lozenge" of the First Sergeant at the center. I thought I would try to use two of the delta emblems back-to-back to create a new USSF version of the lozenge -- but, actually, I think the plain old-fashioned parallelogram shape works better and is more easily recognisable so I have changed it back!

Yes, I had thought about the SEAC role but it seemed a bit presumptive at the moment, given that there is effectively zero chance of a USSF SEAC for the forceable future! Nevertheless, for completeness, I have now included the insignia, using the established emblem of the eagle surrounded by four stars. smilies-29


USSF enlisted grades v2.png
US Space Force Enlisted rank v2



I did a trawl through the internet last night and, perhaps not surprisingly, there is a fair amount of chatter about what the uniforms and such will be. If you ignore all the humorous versions based on Star Trek / Star Wars / V / Starship Troopers / Spaceballs / Barbarella (yes, really...), and only look at the “serious” efforts, it seems that quite a few folks have come up with very similar uniform concepts around a grey and/or black version of the older-style Air Force uniform, so it will be interesting to see if we’ve all guessed correctly!
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby marcpasquin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:33 pm

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:Thanks guys -- feedback noted! smilies-15

The attachment USSF enlisted grades v2.png is no longer available



To me it would simplify the design if the delta formed part of the top chevron for the master sergeant onward instead of coming out of the bottom-most chevron.

0988745.png



Medic_in_Uniform wrote:I did a trawl through the internet last night and, perhaps not surprisingly, there is a fair amount of chatter about what the uniforms and such will be. If you ignore all the humorous versions based on Star Trek / Star Wars / V / Starship Troopers / Spaceballs / Barbarella (yes, really...), and only look at the “serious” efforts, it seems that quite a few folks have come up with very similar uniform concepts around a grey and/or black version of the older-style Air Force uniform, so it will be interesting to see if we’ve all guessed correctly!


Every time someone talk about the US Space Force, I get an uptick on the number of views of my deviantart page. Thankfully, the number of messages I get from acquaintances saying "hey ! you image is on {such-and-such news outlet page} as an official proposal !" has dropped in the past year.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:13 pm

Hi Marc — yes, that’s a fair observation!

I started out trying to use the Delta as the basis for ALL the enlisted insignia with progressive additional chevrons like “wings” as the system progressed. It sort of worked but I ended up going down a slightly different path and switched to making the Delta the key symbol of the Master Sergeants, and I think it achieved the goal of making those grades immediately recognisable. I did try the delta above the chevrons but it ended up making the insignia for the senior grades ridiculously tall! To be fair, the current USAF insignia for the E7 and above Master Sergeant grades aren’t exactly minuscule anyway!

I take your point about the simplicity of the overall look with the Delta above the chevrons and that’s definitely a positive attribute with rank insignia. One of the things that I have noticed with many of the ideas I’ve seen online is just how *complex* the designs for the enlisted insignia become, especially for the senior grades. I’ll have another look at it!

Your original designs for Space Force enlisted insignia were very good and they have been around for a while now so I’m not surprised that they keep getting appropriated! I guess it’s also about the fact that once you’re listed on the search engines, you will keep getting more hits and so it spirals! I keep spotting them in many places.

I guess it’s been over ten years since I first started putting my various drawings online and one of the most amusing things is that I’m now seeing my own drawings of badges and rank insignia appropriated by the very organisations they depict, both for websites and for their official documents. That made me laugh!
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:25 pm

The top row in this drawing is one of the ways I started putting together the delta-and-chevrons enlisted insignia. It's a bit "busy" (!) and not very easy to read at a glance.

The bottom row is something I did just now after taking heed of my own comments about simpler being better! I took a very reductionist approach and removed every component symbol that was unnecessarily repeated from one insignia to the next. I then looked at how to make the sequence follow a logical order, so that there was an obvious stepwise progression from each grade to the next. I elected to keep the large Delta symbol as the key marker of the Master Sergeant grades, E7 through E9. I've also gently tapered the chevrons to follow the angle of the sides of the delta; this helps to reduce the overall space taken up by each insignia and creates a more balanced shape which is easier to see.

I think I like this one; it's much, much simpler and easier to follow. In fact, from E1 Basic through the standard E9 Chief Master Sergeant, the whole pattern can be followed using just the chevron and delta components, no additional symbols are required.

I've left the delta-and-globe symbol in the center of the E7 and above Master Sergeants' insignia in this drawing as it does add a nice level of detail; I guess it could be included for full-size service dress chevron on coat sleeves but for all other versions, including soft shoulder slides and pin-on metal insignia, this could be omitted. Really, the only additional marks required would be those needed for the special duty E9 grades.


USSF enlisted grades v3.png
US Space Force Enlisted insignia: initial concept versus refined and simplified design.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:24 pm

The updated Enlisted grade insignia with the enlisted service dress uniforms:

Formal service dress A -- E9 special duty: Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force
(with special cap and collar badges)

Working service dress B -- E6: Senior Sergeant
(with garrison cap)


USSF enlisted v4.png
US Space Force Enlisted insignia with service dress A and B
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:27 am

I like the revisions.

And also, the suppositions about the status of USAF First Sergeants are correct.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Torg003 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:03 pm

Have to agree, the revised ranks look good, much cleaner and easier to make out.
It will be interesting to see what the actual insignia will look like. Maybe they might take some ideas from your posts, who knows?
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:25 am

One problem that I can see though, is that from a distance, the shoulder marks would look like USAF Academy cadet ranks.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Onslow123 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:07 pm

I have the suspicion, that rank structure is going to be more eclectic. The transfer of army units apparently also means the transfer of Army ranks and there are two cases:

1)Specialists E4 are probably going to get their own insignia.

2) Warrant Officers are going to be introduced. The only other real alternative would be late entry commissioning of WO-s to corresponding officer ranks O-1 to O-5 or O-6, probably as limited duty officers.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:50 pm

Torg003 wrote:Have to agree, the revised ranks look good, much cleaner and easier to make out.
It will be interesting to see what the actual insignia will look like. Maybe they might take some ideas from your posts, who knows?


Thanks!
Unlikely my ideas will ever even be considered for, or even influence, the real thing...!

My drawings don't even appear if you Google "US Space Force uniforms" so I doubt the powers that be have even seen them!

smilies-23



Onslow123 wrote:I have the suspicion, that rank structure is going to be more eclectic. The transfer of army units apparently also means the transfer of Army ranks and there are two cases:

1)Specialists E4 are probably going to get their own insignia.

2) Warrant Officers are going to be introduced. The only other real alternative would be late entry commissioning of WO-s to corresponding officer ranks O-1 to O-5 or O-6, probably as limited duty officers.



It'll be interesting to see what happens; just because they're potentially going to be transferring in some Army members, it doesn't necessarily follow that they will adopt Army structure and grade titles once those individuals are assimilated (no Borg jokes please...) into the new service. It might make sense to align and standardise rank titles with grades where the same title is being used by other services -- although that doesn't exist at the moment anyway given that a USAF "Staff Sergeant" is E5 but in the US Army and the USMC the E5 grade is "Sergeant" and the title "Staff Sergeant' is the grade above at E6, which the USAF title "Technical Sergeant". I know it's a historical quirk but I have to admit that I've never quite understood why this came about. It's not that I don't understand what the arguments were, it just make no sense to me not to have the grades and titles standardised across all the services that use them. It's established though, so I can understand why there would be resistance to changing it.

It's entirely possible, of course, that the USSF may opt to do something new and completely different, given that it sounds like even their more junior enlisted grades will need to be fairly technically trained / qualified and they may choose to adapt where the NCO leadership grades begin within the pay grades. We'll just have to wait and see.

Warrant Officers, on the other hand, are not particularly hard to include. Sure, there's a degree of inter-service variation but the general pattern for the W1 through CW5 across all the services is still based on a lieutenant's rank bar with various squares and lines added to denote grade. It wouldn't change anything that's already here, it would just add an extra set of five bars on the chart alongside the officer ranks, and possibly a slightly different cap badge if they decided not to use the plain officer-style US coat of arms.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:41 am

The transfer of personnel from services other than the Air Force is at least a year off into the future, so the rank structure will be set before then

There could well be warrant officers, however, especially in cyber occupations.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Lord Cybran » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:39 pm

Hey Medic - glad you've resumed drawing your awesome insignia patterns! We've been missing them! smilies-23
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Lord Cybran » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:58 pm

Medic_in_Uniform wrote:Thanks guys -- feedback noted! smilies-15

As I understand it, the USAF use the First Sergeant role as a special duty appointment rather than a single rank. The appointee is effectively the senior enlisted advisor for that unit, with responsibilities for the welfare and conduct of all enlisted members in the unit. Depending on the size of the unit, the substantive grade of the First Sergeant may be E7 to E9. They wear grade chevrons specific to that appointment with traditional diamond-shaped "lozenge" of the First Sergeant at the center. I thought I would try to use two of the delta emblems back-to-back to create a new USSF version of the lozenge -- but, actually, I think the plain old-fashioned parallelogram shape works better and is more easily recognisable so I have changed it back!

Yes, I had thought about the SEAC role but it seemed a bit presumptive at the moment, given that there is effectively zero chance of a USSF SEAC for the forceable future! Nevertheless, for completeness, I have now included the insignia, using the established emblem of the eagle surrounded by four stars. smilies-29


USSF enlisted grades v2.png



I did a trawl through the internet last night and, perhaps not surprisingly, there is a fair amount of chatter about what the uniforms and such will be. If you ignore all the humorous versions based on Star Trek / Star Wars / V / Starship Troopers / Spaceballs / Barbarella (yes, really...), and only look at the “serious” efforts, it seems that quite a few folks have come up with very similar uniform concepts around a grey and/or black version of the older-style Air Force uniform, so it will be interesting to see if we’ve all guessed correctly!


Personally, if I were to choose among the patterns for enlisted members you posted here, I'd choose that one. smilies-33
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Torg003 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:14 am

I've been thinking about the uniforms, everyone seems to think that they will be either black or dark grey because they would be the obvious choices. I'm wondering if they might surprise everyone in choosing a USAF style uniform in a dark blue colour. If it happens, you heard it hear first. smilies-29
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:37 am

Yep, I definitely think that’s in the mix of possibilities.

For what it’s worth, there’s a dark navy blue variant in my first drawing and I mentioned it in the discussion. It’s worth remembering that they chose navy blue as the embroidery color on the field uniform that they published a little while back.

Dark navy blue looks a lot like all the other services so, depending on your point of view, that’s either a very good reason for using it or a very good reason for NOT using it...!

My best guess is that we’ll see a black or dark grey version of the current USAF uniform, or possibly a straightforward revival of the old-style USAF black officer uniform variants. People tend to like and choose things that they can see and recognise. A lot of this will depend on how much Gen. Raymond, and others, want to adhere to the heritage they are familiar with, versus how willing they are to strike out and establish something new and different. In the end, it’ll be some sort of balance between those two positions.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Helios88 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:58 am

Personally, I think uniforms will be USAF-inspired, while insignias will be brand new.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:15 pm

For the one or two of you following this thread, I thought this might amuse you...

I was never 100% convinced by my suggested Enlisted insignia. Sure, I refined them a bit but they still didn't feel quite right, and didn't look how I wanted them.

I've been through a process of evolving them and figured it might be interesting to show you how that looked rather than just presenting the end product -- it also gives you guys the chance to comment and maybe you prefer some of the versions that appeared along the way. Always happy to hear what you all think! smilies-15

There are six stages to this and I'll briefly explain the logic as they progress.

USSF enlisted - Evolution1.png
Evolution of proposed USSF enlisted insignia (part 1)


1. The top line of insignia is my last posted effort. It never quite got to where I wanted it. I strongly believe that with insignia, less is more. The simpler they are, the easier they are to understand.

2. The middle line begins to use a motif I always intended to include, but couldn't initially get to look right, which is using chevrons to create a "wings" effect around the Delta symbol. It sort of echoes the winged Star of the USAF enlisted insignia. In this version, I used the winged Delta for the most junior grades and left most of the rest as they were in the previous version. Note that the angle of the chevrons is directly taken from the angle of the base of the Delta, and the taper of the chevrons follows the angle of the long sides of the delta.

3. For the third version, I changed this to include the winged Delta as the basic symbol that becomes consistent across ALL grades. A pattern of increasing inverted chevrons denotes the sequence of senior enlisted grades, working towards the single large delta which now becomes specific to the Chief Master Sergeant grades


USSF enlisted - Evolution2.png
Evolution of proposed USSF enlisted insignia (part 2)


4. For the top line here, I decided to remove the large delta symbol as it just looked too unwieldy. Instead, additional chevrons denote the increasing junior grades and the inverted chevrons are specific only to the Master Sergeant grades, with the group of three inverted chevrons becoming the marker of the Chief Master Sergeants.

5. The additional chevrons at E5 and E6 didn't look quite right and weren't readily distinguishable at-a-glance so they were replaced with plain horizontal tie-bars above the winged-Delta chevrons. I also wanted to try placing all the insignia on a more obvious darker background -- and I do think this helps.

6. Final evolution: the most junior grades change to an increasing pattern of horizontal bars around the Delta, to clearly distinguish what are likely to be incrementally senior technical operative grades from the junior and senior NCO leadership grades. This neatly allowed me to progress from three bars for E4 to three chevrons for E5, which then makes the traditional three chevrons insignia the standard starting point for all of the various subsequent Sergeant grades, closer to the US Army and USMC insignia. E6 Staff Sergeant then gets a single horizontal tie-bar, which leads to E7 Master Sergeant with the single inverted chevron, thus keeping the sequence of inverted chevrons for the Master Sergeant grades.

Overall, I'm quite pleased with these; they meet my main goals of being simpler and more readily recognisable at-a-glance. For ease of display, I've drawn them all as they might appear on soft shoulder slides for shirts and sweaters but I believe these would also look appropriately professional and "military" on the sleeves of service dress coats as well as on patches for combat uniforms.

As ever, comments and debate are welcome!
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Torg003 » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:33 pm

Though the large delta is unique looking, I agree that it is a bit too big making the insignia a bit too large (even for American ranks smilies-29 ).
I like how you simplified the ranks, making them easier to recognize, but keeping them unique looking.
Kudos to you! I doubt the actual ranks that are officially adopted will look as good as yours.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:10 pm

The Chief Master Sergeant of the Space Force was sworn in today.

Insignia:

Image

"As of today, Towberman will wear the same operational camouflage pattern uniform configuration as the CSO, but with a new, yet interim, rank insignia.

The general shape of the interim rank insignia is consistent with Air Force CMSgt rank insignia as well as other SEAs. The delta, globe and orbit are consistent with the official Space Force seal, and the two stars in the upper portion are consistent with the SEA rank insignia of other services. Until a Space Force service uniform is designed, the stripes will be consistent with the current colors (white and blue) of the Air Force service uniform."
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:18 pm

You beat me to it! smilies-23

I had that same image and was about to post it too! smilies-01

I guess as a temporary insignia, it was pretty much the obvious thing to do.
It certainly makes sense to me.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:02 am

This is decidedly NOT the official USSF ranks / insignia or uniforms (!) but I have been refining my previous concepts, so I figured you guys may want to see them.

I have stuck with grey as the base color but decided that black was just too dreary to be the accent colour. The Army has blue with gold, the USMC has blue with red, the USN and the USCG use their respective shades of blue with gold and the USSF is possibly the least interesting with their shade of blue and silver.

I have gone for a darker ("charcoal") shade of grey but I have added USAF blue as the accent colour, in respect of the immediate heritage of the USSF. It's difficult to get the colours to show accurately on various monitors ad displays, but the intention is that the blue should be the "historic" USAF "shade 84" blue of the classic 1950's USAF uniforms.

Having made that decision, it seemed appropriate to use light blue/grey shirts to bring the overall look together. The standard all-ranks button design uses the delta/globe/orbit symbol from the USSF seal. The same symbol is worn by all ranks on the left of the garrison/flight cap, with rank insignia on the right (standard officer pins and miniature metal pins for enlisted grades).

I have stuck with the last revised version of the enlisted insignia that I posted previously as I think it's now distinctive for the USSF but nicely simplified so that every grade is relatively easy to distinguish at-a-glance. (I'm always open to suggestions though!). The cap and collar devices for the Senior NCOs began as unique devices really intended only for the CMSSF but the more I looked at it, the more it seemed not a bad idea to extend this to all the Master Sergeant grades, distinguishing them as SNCOs, sort of similar to the way that USN CPOs have their own cap devices and uniforms. New service, opportunity for new and different traditions.

(Yes, it didn't escape my notice that the USMC have "EGA" for Eagle/Globe/Anchor and the USMC can have "DGO" for Delta/Globe/Orbit...!)

The are, of course many possibilities and variations for these designs: the bullion and badges could be gold instead of silver; the accent colour could be blue or black or some other color; the service cap visor decoration for senior officers could be oak leaves instead of the USAF-style clouds and lightning bolts; and so on. I was trying to see if I could design something unique for the USSF officer visor decoration, similar to the USAF pattern but using, say, starbursts and the Delta symbol, but I haven't gotten it to look quite right yet -- hence I have stuck with the silver USAF-style clouds and darts for now.

I am aware that the USAF do not currently use the Warrant Officer grades but, as this entire service is being developed from scratch, it seemed prudent to at least include the W-1 to W-5 ranks in the overall scheme so that they are there, should it be felt appropriate to use them. There may be a need to transfer in existing WO grade personnel, although I guess there may be scope to allow commissioning in appropriate grades for some of those WOs. The idea of positioning the WO rank insignia centrally on the shoulder straps / boards / slides was just a way of making them visually distinct and giving them something uniquely their own. Again, new service, opportunity for new and different traditions.

The full, high-collar dress uniform is something of a conceit, I admit, but it seemed a shame not to at least consider an option for such an order of dress, even if it's actual use would probably be relatively limited. Clearly, as I have suggested previously, it would be perfectly possible to wear the hard boards, bullion cap strap and a decorated belt as additions to the service dress coat with collar-and-tie, rather than having a completely different uniform for formal / ceremonial occasions. But what the heck it works well enough for the USMC...! smilies-23

There are other explanatory notes included in the images.

USSF All Ranks Insignia.png
US Space Force - All ranks insignia concept (soft shoulder marks)


USSF Service Dress.png
US Space Force - Service Dress uniform concept


USSF Enlisted Insignia.png
US Space Force - Enlisted rank markings (Service dress uniform concept)


USSF Officer Service Insignia.png
US Space Force - Officer rank markings (Service dress uniform concept)


USSF Officer Dress Insignia.png
US Space Force - Officer rank insignia (Full dress uniform concept)


USSF Full Dress.png
US Space Force - Full Dress uniform concept


USSF Warrant Insignia.png
US Space Force - Warrant Officer rank concept



As ever, comments and suggestions very welcome. This is just me throwing out ideas!
smilies-23
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:31 pm

Just for the sake of completeness, this was the final version of the other variation with just black as the accent color and a slightly lighter shade of grey for the uniforms.

This version has the Army/USMC-style appearance with lighter shade trousers for all grades except general officers -- but it would be easy enough to convert this back to having the trousers match the coats for all grades, more like the USAF or USN.

I also have a version that has this basic uniform pattern with the lighter shades of grey but includes the USAF shade 84 detailing in place of the black (essentially a mix of this version and the one from the previous post) but I don't want to clutter up this thread any more than I already have!
smilies-23

USSF All Ranks (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: All Ranks (soft shoulder marks)


USSF Service (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: Service Dress


USSF Enlisted (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: Enlisted


USSF Officer Service (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: Officer (Service)


USSF Officer Dress (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: Officer (Dress)


USSF Warrant (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: Warrant


USSF Dress (grey-black).png
USSF uniform concept grey/black: Full Dress
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:03 pm

Does Steve Carrell know something the rest of us don’t...?! smilies-15

https://mobile.twitter.com/realspacefor ... se-date%2F
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:52 am

Full color insignia (open in new tab to see):

Image
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:38 pm

Thanks — great pic! smilies-15

It was pretty much the obvious design for them to use for the time being as they needed some way to differentiate the badge from the CMSAF with the US Arms in the center.

Using the DGO between the two stars in the same way that the SMMC insignia uses the EGA between two stars was clearly going to be top of the list while they’re still using USAF uniforms and insignia. Once they have firmly defined their own enlisted grades and insignia this may change again although, having established the DGO and stars, I wonder if they might be tempted to keep that symbol, within whatever pattern of chevrons they choose to use.

Just for ease of viewing, here’s the insignia cropped from the main pic:

E923283C-DE3A-46D6-BB89-A8104A3B1C42.jpeg
E923283C-DE3A-46D6-BB89-A8104A3B1C42.jpeg (19.04 KiB) Viewed 1243 times
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri May 15, 2020 9:44 pm

USSF 2.jpg

Not directly uniform-related, but the USSF flag was unveiled today, and is black with "platinum" fringe, so that may offer some uniform clues.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Fri May 15, 2020 9:56 pm

Cool! Thank you - I had missed that they had released this!

Interesting...! smilies-15

I have to admit that black and silver (Platinum...?! that could break the DoD budget...!) was always something that I felt to be a likely option for their uniforms, especially given that they have ready-made historic examples that they can reference in the form of the old USAF black uniform variants.

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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Thu May 21, 2020 2:47 am

Apparently the announcements on uniforms, rank titles and so on are likely to be within the next few weeks.

I think you're right and that black with silver ("platinum") / gray is the likely base color-scheme for the service dress, based on the old USAF "Black Informal" uniform, but without so much of the bullion for the basic day-to-day service dress. A ceremonial variant for the USSF, however, could look very much like the historic uniform.

I suspect that we'll see something a bit like this:

USSF black service dress.png



Historic examples of the USAF Black Informal uniforms:

image009-2.jpg


image007-2.jpg


image009.jpg


image003.jpg
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Thu May 21, 2020 4:00 am

Reasonable supposition.

Am still hoping for silver sleeve braid for rank, regardless of rank titles.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Thu May 21, 2020 10:39 am

dcfowler wrote:Reasonable supposition.

Am still hoping for silver sleeve braid for rank, regardless of rank titles.



Are you thinking of something like the very briefly used McPeak-style USAF silver sleeve lace?

McPeak sleeve lace (4-star).jpg



It's an interesting idea and I wouldn't be against it, even if they kept to Army/AF rank titles, rather than Navy/CG rank titles -- but (and this is a big BUT) I suspect that the unpopularity of the McPeak uniform from the early 1990s will likely put anyone with AF heritage completely off any idea of using cuff lace, even if just for dress/formal uniforms.

Even then, like the Navy and CG, I'm sure they'd still be using the standard pattern US officer collar / shoulder pins for less formal uniforms and in embroidered form for working uniforms.


I hedged my bets on this by using plain cuff bands for groups of officers in my designs, a bit like the officer cuff bands on the old army green service dress and the post-1994 USAF service dress, but with slightly more variation by grade:
half-inch for company grade, one inch for field grade, two inch for general officers. In the previous versions they were black or AF blue on gray uniforms.
(The current braid is half-inch for colonel and below, one-and-a-half inches for generals.)

For the black version of the uniforms, I'd use a flat worsted in a "platinum" gray color for service dress and save actual bullion cuff bands (in the same sizes) for ceremonial uniforms.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Fri May 22, 2020 4:21 am

Something similar, but maybe with the delta and orbit above the braid.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat May 23, 2020 1:09 am

Ha! These were early concepts I did a while back but rejected because I figured they just wouldn't go down this route -- but I kept the drawings and updated them when we got to see the USSF seal.

Note that the big pic of the ranks and caps has a DGO as the cap badge, whereas the pics of the uniforms retain the US Arms as the cap badge. The dress version of the uniform only has the hard shoulder marks as I was in the middle of transitioning from one version to the other.

If silver lace was the way to go then the hard shoulder boards would be more like USN shoulder boards but in black and "platinum" rather than navy blue and gold -- but obviously it would then be cuff stripes OR shoulder boards on the finished versions, not both!

The cap visor decoration was a concept I was working with using the Delta as a USSF-specific embellishment, in place of the USAF farts-and-darts or oak leaves.


USSF Silver Stripes.png


USSF Slver Stripes Service Dress.png


USSF Silver Stripes Full Dress.png
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Sat May 23, 2020 3:24 am

If they go that route, I am guessing they won't go with white covers to be a "little less" Navy.
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby Medic_in_Uniform » Sat May 23, 2020 10:33 am

Agreed!

These were very much concept studies that I canned quite early in the process so quite a few of the details don’t tie-up.

This is low-res but is a slightly different variant of service dress with black cover:

USSF_black_stripes.png




Overall, I do think it now seems likely that we're going to see black suits with black covers and standard officer pins. It’s just a question of what they do with the details:
- Minimalist USAF-style coats or more “military” styling?
- US arms or something bespoke for cap badges?
- What forms will they use for buttons, enlisted chevrons, visor decoration for senior officers, and so on...?
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Re: US Space Force

Unread postby dcfowler » Sat May 23, 2020 7:20 pm

According to a thread on Reddit, MajGen Crosier, in the Office of the CSO told people that the uniforms will be black, but no other details.
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